Perception B G Football

[Flipper]

Now there's a compelling argument...you're saying things I don't like...therefore, you should leave.

If I went into the other sports forum and started trashing the achievements of our swimmers as meaningless and without merit, do you think that would be a good use of that forum?

I don't think that would be a good use of that forum. It would also be mean spirited, and I suspect you would be annoyed. The point of that forum is to celebrate the achievements of Bowling Green's non-revenue sports and discuss the challenges facing these programs.

The point of this forum is to celebrate the achievements of Bowling Green football and discuss the challenges facing the program. You don't seem interested in that. Instead, you seem more interested in tearing down the program and arguing the whole enterprise -- FBS football -- is stupid.

If I want to read people tear down our football program, there are message boards devoted to Ohio State football or Toledo football where people love to take shots at Falcon football. The reason I come here is to talk with other Falcon football fans who share a love for the program.

You've said yourself you don't love the football program anymore. So why are you here? It seems like every other every off-season discussion about football turns into another round of you bellyaching about how the athletic department is funded.

This funding model isn't new. Student fees have helped fund intercollegiate athletics at Bowling Green for at least 25 years, just as they help fund other student organizations and other student activities (including UAO).

Football is not the demon you think it is here. Bowling Green could drop football tomorrow and BGSU would still be using student fees to subsidize athletics. We know this because Cleveland State, Youngstown State, and Wright State all subsidize their athletic programs with student fees, too.

(As does Cincinnati, for what it's worth.)

Maybe we will one day reach a point in time where FBS or Division I just isn't worth the cost at BGSU. Or maybe we can eventually grow the football program to the point where student fees are less necessary. But neither of these outcomes appear imminent, and the football program is enjoying a great run of success right now. Can't we at least enjoy that?

To the mods: I would suggest future posts about the student fee be moved to the free-for-all forum. I don't think they belong here. BGSU doesn't have a football fee. It has a student fee that funds lots of things, including the entire athletic program. This forum is (or should be) about football.

Wah....

Yes..other schools in Ohio fund athletics with student money...most of D1 does that. That's why for so many colleges D1 sports are a sucker bet.

The point I continue to argue is that this isn't sustainable. Expenditures cannot outstrip revenues to the extent they are without some changes being made. Your emotional tie to the notion that "we're D1 and nothing else will matter" is a short sighted egotistical conceit that you don't pay for and frankly, it's insulting to the alma mater you claim to love.

[Globetrotter]

anyone interested go to the OSU ticket page and see what the students have to go through to get a ticket it's laughable

OSU students or BG students?

[Globetrotter]

I keep hearing the bubble is going to burst, and while I don't disagree, I do wonder what is different now than the last 40 years or so? 93 years? Why could we exist then but not now?

Google increased athletic spending or some such...you'll find tons of articles.

Shouldn't a rising tide lift all boats? It seems that despite working really hard inequality in payouts and scheduling are destroying what was a great product. Hmmmm.

Inequality of payouts? The MAC broadcast deal should be equal to the B1G?

The payouts related to the tournament that all teams can go to, yes.

[Schadenfreude]

Yes..other schools in Ohio fund athletics with student money...most of D1 does that. That's why for so many colleges D1 sports are a sucker bet.

Your position appears to be that Bowling Green should drop down to Division II or Division III. You are welcome to this point of view, but debating this is not the purpose of this thread (Perception B G Football) or this forum (Football).

Expenditures cannot outstrip revenues to the extent they are

Last time I checked, the athletic department took in about $22 million in revenue and spent about $22 million. Some of that revenue was from the student fee, but spending matches revenue, more or less.

[Flipper]

well...thank you officer Netcop for deciding what the rules are on a board you don't run...you seem to like dictating the process when you aren't paying. what's up with that?

"Some" of the athletics budget comes from student fees? It's right around 65%...2/3 is "some"? It would be beyond awesome if we could get student athletes to...in essence..pay to come here and play like they have at Adrian as opposed to paying them . Hasn't worked real well at Lourdes...but I think it would be worth a shot. We could have bass fishing, Men's track and equestrian teams....how fricking cool would that be?

[Flipper]

It's the jouney...the academics wouldn't like me either. I'm opposed to faculty unions. Hell...I'm opposed to allowing public employees of any type to bargain collectively

[It's the Journey...]

That's a topic for another day. Right now this one is more fun..........

[Tech2000]

BGSU Falcon Fishing Team@bgsufishing, or http://bgsufishing.weebly.com/" target="_blank
and Adrian is d3 no scholarships given, so what you are saying is BGSU should play d3? or like our rugby just make all sports non league and play all club sports?

[Schadenfreude]

well...thank you officer Netcop for deciding what the rules are on a board you don't run...

I'm not a moderator. I am hoping that a moderator will step up and make some decisions about what the focus of this forum should be.

[It's the Journey...]

I don't think Flipper is advocating for BG to drop down a division or drop any sports. He is pointing out that we are not a "have" school. And because of that the finite cap on our funds comes sooner than an OSU, Michigan, Alabama, etc. Indications are that in the next decade schools like BG and the rest of the MAC will have to deal with a new reality. Should be be taking roughly 60% of each student's general fee to pay for athletics? Could we take less for athletics and give more to other areas of campus? We have had much success the past three seasons in the form of championships and beating lower teams in the "have" conferences. But the facts remain that it will be a cold day in hell before a non power 5 conference team plays for the (still) mythical National Championship.

So the perception of BG football as I see it is as follows. We are a team that has had recent success but history shows we may not be able to sustain it. We are a great early season game for power 5 schools. We will get wins against the bottom and be great tune ups for the top. We play in the MAC. While that is better than CUSA it still means we will not be a contender nationally on a consistent basis. Oh, and before leaving in the dead of night, Urban Meyer coached here never winning a division title, conference title, or bowl game.

With that out there we need to look at what is in the best interests of the athletic department as a whole. Football does not make money. It is not the only sport that does not, but it does take the most money. We will never keep up with the "Jonses" of the power 5 conferences, and I do not believe we are trying. Right now we have to keep up with the "Jonese" in our own back yard. That is the fight we must be careful of. That is why I don't understand the outright refusal to even look at all options available to us. Will our department be stronger as a member of FCS? Would that move allow us to fund all sports with the maximum number of scholarships permitted. Will a salary cap for coaches work here? Even if the answer to these questions keeps us where we are, why not ask?

[kdog27]

To the mods: I would suggest future posts about the student fee be moved to the free-for-all forum. I don't think they belong here. BGSU doesn't have a football fee. It has a student fee that funds lots of things, including the entire athletic program. This forum is (or should be) about football.

Noted.

Moderator out.

[falconfan1]

flipper, in my entire career I have never had a student or family ever tell me they were headed to Wright State or Cleveland State because of that few hundred dollars in athletic subsidy difference. Ever. It has never been mentioned. And many families DO realize athletics is subsidized. Most students and families want athletics as a general part of a university experience.

Most students and families want to have THE OPPORTUNITY to attend a sporting event at the level we play. Many go to football games. Many go to hockey games. We are going to have reestablish a connection and winning result at Stroh. We absolutely must do that.

Go to a MAC Championship football game in Detroit and check just the student crowd. I realize they pay for that one, but watch their reactions and joy in being there. It is real. In the thousands. Our students love to support us in big football games especially at home- and yes on Saturdays. I want all Saturdays too in a perfect world. It isn't perfect. Sit in the stands at a big hockey game and listen and observe. You will see every type of student wandering around in the Ice Arena. Students enjoy these games. A lot. Watch them run on the field when soccer beats Michigan. That is real.

Is all that worth $3200? Is it worth $1600? Is it worth $800? I don't know. But students like BG sports. Not all students. Some do not care a bit. But there are many true casual fans who do support the concept. And then the real core student fans.

We do not want higher fees. Manage things. Work on things at league level etc etc. I understand all of that. I agree. If we drop all athletics then that fee is gone. If we keep athletics at any level, the fee at some level will be there as schadenf said.

But when I was in Kansas City/Denver/Sacramento early this month, how did folks know us? MACtion. BG Football. ESPN. ESPN2. 3. U. Whatever it is. They watch us. And that actually matters in markets we directly recruit for students like Chicago and western PA. It absolutely matters. I see it. I hear it. And they apply.

Go Falcons!

[Globetrotter]

It's the jouney...the academics wouldn't like me either. I'm opposed to faculty unions. Hell...I'm opposed to allowing public employees of any type to bargain collectively

Trump Supporter.

[Lord_Byron]

I'll stay with the thread-jack here, and add my two-cents.

Problem is that at a school like BG, there are generally two types of students:

1. Those whose parents are able to provide them the type of college experience that people think of. Dorm life, campus activities, athletics, keggers, late night pizzas, sitting around dorm lounges solving world problems, discussing whether the Flintstones and Jetsons were actually both post apocalyptic versions of American society, etc. For the most part, these folks are indifferent to the extra student fees, and generally view BG as a pretty good value. As an out-of-state parent, it's eminently affordable for me and the Princess is considering it seriously.

2. Those who are financing their own education. They are working part or full time. They might be a little older. Paying for housing, or living with their parents. Trying to get as much as they can from college, but specifically focused on getting their degree and minimizing the debt necessary to do so. Every extra fee, book expense, etc. is huge for them. They're paying for activities that even if they want to use, they may not have the time.

Neither of these situations is intrinsically better than the other. Somehow, it's up to the university to balance them.

[Roll Along!]

How many of our mid week games are on ESPN? How many are on "the deuce" or ESPNU or better yet...ESPN3?

From 2013 and back, the midweek games "televised" on ESPN3 were a real problem. But, here's where we've been seen since 2014 during midweek MACtion.

11-4-14 - ESPN2
11-12-14 - ESPN2
11-19-14 - ESPN2
11-28-14 - ESPN3 (Thanksgiving week)
11-4-15 - ESPN2
11-11-15 - ESPN2
11-17-15 - ESPN2
11-24-15 - ESPN3 (Thanksgving week)
11-1-16 - ESPN2 or ESPNU
11-9-16 - ESPN2 or ESPNU
11-15-16 - ESPN2 or ESPNU
11-25-16 - ESPN2 or ESPNU

ESPNU sucks, but ESPN2 is in as many homes as ESPN today. You really can't find anyone who has ESPN who doesn't have ESPN2.

We haven't been stuck playing midweek games (outside of Thanksgiving and I'm not sure what the answer is there) on ESPN3 since 2013. It's a HUGE deal to be on national television like that. Our kids from Florida and other locales (I guess Texas now) love it as their family and friends get to watch them back home regularly. That helps recruiting.

Are we Ohio State? No. Are we trying to be? I don't think so. If you want a football program that's vying for a national championship, you will have to look somewhere else than the MAC. But if you want championship quality football that builds up the status and perception of the University, then you got that. Do you want BGSU to be compared with peers such as Findlay, Youngstown State, and Ashland? Or do you want to be compared to Miami, Kent State, Toledo and Ohio? For most people in this country (whether right or wrong), football is the driving force behind those comparisons.