View of coach Jinks from a veteran football coach

[guest44]

What has Jinks done to help those players improve? It's not like those players all didn't know Jinks was not nearly qualified for the job. He admitted it himself. The guys with better options got out.

[bg1984]

Okay. I'll bite. "The guys with better options got out."

I looked up the guys from the 2014 class who left the program. Here is what I found:

Trevahn Beery: playing for Div II Malone 1-9. Looked through box scores of games, no mention of Beery

Jalen Dingle: playing for Div II Kentucky State University 3-7, by way of Iowa Western CC.

Isiah Moore: NCAA declares him
Ineligible for D-I. Ends up at Mesa CC in Arizona. Now with Boise State

Clayton Nicholas: playing for NAIA Faulkner University. Seems to be able to play at this level

Griff Saunders: no info- seems to be out of college football

DeAngelo Ware: no info. Seems to be out of college football

Chance Weitz: no info. Seems to be out of college football.

Other than Moore, the "better offers" didn't seem to be from other Division I FBS teams. It's just possible then that those players recruited by Babers in 2014 were not actually Div I caliber athletes and no amount of developing would have turned them into ones. If they were, wouldn't it stand to reason that other D I programs would have scooped them up?

It seems more clear the further we drill down that Babers simply didn't do his due dilligence when it came to recruiting. He nabbed Lewis, yes, but that was a unique situation given the legal issues hanging over his head. Otherwise it seems to me that he was handed the keys to a Ferrari and all he had to do was stay out of the way. He knew he could ride the Ferrari to a higher paying gig within a couple of years so working on recruiting was an afterthought.

[Schadenfreude]

The guys with better options got out.

To bg1984's point, I would add that Roger Lewis almost certainly didn't leave because Mike Jinks was hired. Lewis saw a chance to play in the NFL and his favorite quarterback, Matt Johnson, was graduating.

It would seem to be a similar story for Gehrig Dieter. He saw Lewis and Johnson leaving and decided to accept an opportunity to play at Alabama.

I don't see these departures as a reflection on Jinks. Perhaps these guys saw that a rebuild was likely and they didn't want to end their collegiate careers that way.

[Falconfreak90]

Okay. I'll bite. "The guys with better options got out."

I looked up the guys from the 2014 class who left the program. Here is what I found:

Trevahn Beery: playing for Div II Malone 1-9. Looked through box scores of games, no mention of Beery

Jalen Dingle: playing for Div II Kentucky State University 3-7, by way of Iowa Western CC.

Isiah Moore: NCAA declares him
Ineligible for D-I. Ends up at Mesa CC in Arizona. Now with Boise State

Clayton Nicholas: playing for NAIA Faulkner University. Seems to be able to play at this level

Griff Saunders: no info- seems to be out of college football

DeAngelo Ware: no info. Seems to be out of college football

Chance Weitz: no info. Seems to be out of college football.

Other than Moore, the "better offers" didn't seem to be from other Division I FBS teams. It's just possible then that those players recruited by Babers in 2014 were not actually Div I caliber athletes and no amount of developing would have turned them into ones. If they were, wouldn't it stand to reason that other D I programs would have scooped them up?

It seems more clear the further we drill down that Babers simply didn't do his due dilligence when it came to recruiting. He nabbed Lewis, yes, but that was a unique situation given the legal issues hanging over his head. Otherwise it seems to me that he was handed the keys to a Ferrari and all he had to do was stay out of the way. He knew he could ride the Ferrari to a higher paying gig within a couple of years so working on recruiting was an afterthought.

That is some great research. IMO, Babers didn't recruit at all. 3 OL in 2 years?

"He knew he could ride the Ferrari to a higher paying gig within a couple of years so working on recruiting was an afterthought". BINGO.

[bg1984]

Thanks schadenfreude and falconfreak90. My point is just this: Jinks has to recruit himself out of this situation. Recruiting players certainly isn't an exact science. How can anyone be sure an 18 year old athlete is going to pan out? It's impossible. Take Matt Johnson as an example. He had a exactly 2 D I offers. Thsts right, 2!!! Temple and BG. 6'0 tall on a good day. But no measurement for heart, desire and grit. He was a Western Pa. guy and anyone who knows about kids from that region know you knock them down and they get right back up. By all accounts it looks as if Jinks is indeed getting quality recruits. If those recruits don't produce wins in the next couple of years then we can discuss his inability to coach. Until then, I have to give him a chance to restock the cupboard with athletes

[MarkL]

That is some great research. IMO, Babers didn't recruit at all. 3 OL in 2 years?

He signed either five or six in 2014 and 2015 classes which is about appropriate. He had several more lined up for 2016 by the time he left for Syracuse. There were some dropouts/attrition so only three remain from those two classes. Wherever the story started that Babers only recruited 3 OL, it is blatantly false.

I truly do not understand the sudden "it's all Babers' fault" mentality around here. It feels like trying to justify why our program is suddenly in the same boat as Kent State when we recently were in the same boat UCF is currently riding.

A coach needs to recruit well. Babers was weaker at recruiting than other recent coaches but he recruited well enough to win. He left Jinks a solid program. Jinks is clearly the better recruiter.

A coach needs to develop players continually. Babers did this masterfully. Look at the progressions of individual players and you saw evidence of good coaching. Jinks? Not sure I'm seeking much individual player development.

A coach needs to prepare players to win. Babers' teams came out to win all the time. Schematically they were ready far more often than not. Jinks? Next topic.

A coach needs to call the game smartly and out coach the opposing coach. Babers did this masterfully. Jinks? Next topic.

So what is my point here? I think Jinks can build a championship roster. I'm just not convinced he can win with a championship roster. He was handed a championship roster in 2016 - nation's most experienced offensive line, championship winning QB, career 1000 yard back, enough starters and depth from a championship defense - and we all know what happened. I'm still convinced that if Babers were around in 2016, we would have returned to Detroit though WMU would have won. I'm convinced we would have hung with OSU and Memphis and beaten MTSU - and also UT.

And BTW, of all those points listed above that a coach must do, Clawson did and did well. He recruited a phenomenal roster. He transformed a bunch of true freshmen into championship seniors. He developed a game changing defense and an offense to match it. And Clawson made the best halftime adjustments I've seen in recent coaches and out-coached opposing coaches the way Solich, Leipold, and Carey out-coached Jinks this year. We were so lucky to have two of the nation's best coaches consecutively. Yes I put both Clawson and Babers in that conversation of best head coaches. Jinks has big shoes to fill.

And I also echo the sentiments on the young coaching staff. All vertical moves. Not enough experience on this coaching staff. The staff came in with no mentors, no truly experienced coaches to guide them. I hope for a shakeup this off season. I would suggest a new DC, someone with prior head coaching experience if possible.

Jinks will have a very talented and experienced roster next year. If we see the other jobs a coach has to do I laid out above, we'll be in great shape going into the future. Prove me wrong, coaches.

[daspollak]

BG is in its current predicament, not for just one reason, but for multiple reasons. First we had 3 different coaches in a 2 year period. Out of 3 recruiting classes, 2 were compromised due to coaching changes. Second, we are feeling that talent drain now. Its hard to compete when you have a young program, and the veteran leadership is not there. Third, we have a coach who is continuing to go through a learning curve. I don't know if he'll figure it out, but I hope so.

I feel optimistic about the future of the program, but if we do not see progress next year, then Jinks needs to go. I feel another solid recruiting class and we should have the talent to compete, and the experience to turn those Ls into Ws.

[Schadenfreude]

I truly do not understand the sudden "it's all Babers' fault" mentality around here.

Last season raised some obvious questions about Babers' legacy here. This isn't really new, at least in my mind.

[Roll Along!]

That is some great research. IMO, Babers didn't recruit at all. 3 OL in 2 years?

And I also echo the sentiments on the young coaching staff. All vertical moves. Not enough experience on this coaching staff. The staff came in with no mentors, no truly experienced coaches to guide them. I hope for a shakeup this off season. I would suggest a new DC, someone with prior head coaching experience if possible.

Jinks will have a very talented and experienced roster next year. If we see the other jobs a coach has to do I laid out above, we'll be in great shape going into the future. Prove me wrong, coaches.

I absolutely expect staff shake-up but I’m not sure it’s going to make much difference. Seeing that he only had 2 years of college experience, he had very few contacts in the college coaching profession initially. You think he didn’t want to bring in guys with experience? He didn’t have those kinds of contacts. He brought in the best of what he could get, considering his contacts and the relatively meager salaries of our assistants.

I’m not sure much has changed in that regard. He will replace youth with youth. What veteran coach with head coaching experience is going to put his neck on the line to come to BG coming off 4-8, 2-10 seasons? We might be better off sticking it out with what we’ve got, have them all develop as coaches together, and not lose the foundation and relationships built in recruiting at this point. But if Jinks can find a sorely-needed veteran coach with lots of experience who can recruit, great! Of course, there’s 100 other schools looking for that too.

[Falcon Commander]

"This isn't really new, at least in my mind"

Ditto !

[kdog27]

That is some great research. IMO, Babers didn't recruit at all. 3 OL in 2 years?

He signed either five or six in 2014 and 2015 classes which is about appropriate. He had several more lined up for 2016 by the time he left for Syracuse. There were some dropouts/attrition so only three remain from those two classes. Wherever the story started that Babers only recruited 3 OL, it is blatantly false.

I truly do not understand the sudden "it's all Babers' fault" mentality around here. It feels like trying to justify why our program is suddenly in the same boat as Kent State when we recently were in the same boat UCF is currently riding.

A coach needs to recruit well. Babers was weaker at recruiting than other recent coaches but he recruited well enough to win. He left Jinks a solid program. Jinks is clearly the better recruiter.

A coach needs to develop players continually. Babers did this masterfully. Look at the progressions of individual players and you saw evidence of good coaching. Jinks? Not sure I'm seeking much individual player development.

A coach needs to prepare players to win. Babers' teams came out to win all the time. Schematically they were ready far more often than not. Jinks? Next topic.

A coach needs to call the game smartly and out coach the opposing coach. Babers did this masterfully. Jinks? Next topic.

So what is my point here? I think Jinks can build a championship roster. I'm just not convinced he can win with a championship roster. He was handed a championship roster in 2016 - nation's most experienced offensive line, championship winning QB, career 1000 yard back, enough starters and depth from a championship defense - and we all know what happened. I'm still convinced that if Babers were around in 2016, we would have returned to Detroit though WMU would have won. I'm convinced we would have hung with OSU and Memphis and beaten MTSU - and also UT.

And BTW, of all those points listed above that a coach must do, Clawson did and did well. He recruited a phenomenal roster. He transformed a bunch of true freshmen into championship seniors. He developed a game changing defense and an offense to match it. And Clawson made the best halftime adjustments I've seen in recent coaches and out-coached opposing coaches the way Solich, Leipold, and Carey out-coached Jinks this year. We were so lucky to have two of the nation's best coaches consecutively. Yes I put both Clawson and Babers in that conversation of best head coaches. Jinks has big shoes to fill.

And I also echo the sentiments on the young coaching staff. All vertical moves. Not enough experience on this coaching staff. The staff came in with no mentors, no truly experienced coaches to guide them. I hope for a shakeup this off season. I would suggest a new DC, someone with prior head coaching experience if possible.

Jinks will have a very talented and experienced roster next year. If we see the other jobs a coach has to do I laid out above, we'll be in great shape going into the future. Prove me wrong, coaches.

[guest44]

Babers was handed the keys to a Ferrari, and did what EVERY coach who wins a MAC Championship at BG would do. Take a huge pay raise and a better job. The problem isn't Babers. The problem is BG handed the keys to someone who has never been behind the wheel before. Then when the 14 year old driver crashes the car, he blames the manufacturer and the person who owned the car before. Jinks didn't have an agent, because he wasn't close to being ready to be a head coach. Speaking of player development, Jinks staff did wonders with Morgan and Knapke. Both got continually worse.

[footballguy51]

Babers was handed the keys to a Ferrari, and did what EVERY coach who wins a MAC Championship at BG would do. Take a huge pay raise and a better job. The problem isn't Babers. The problem is BG handed the keys to someone who has never been behind the wheel before. Then when the 14 year old driver crashes the car, he blames the manufacturer and the person who owned the car before.

No, Barbers took that Ferrari and drove the hell out of it, but never bothered to take it in for routine maintenance. Jinks now has a Ferrari that went without an oil change for 25,000 miles and the tires are bald.

[hammb]

Babers was handed the keys to a Ferrari, and did what EVERY coach who wins a MAC Championship at BG would do. Take a huge pay raise and a better job. The problem isn't Babers. The problem is BG handed the keys to someone who has never been behind the wheel before. Then when the 14 year old driver crashes the car, he blames the manufacturer and the person who owned the car before.

No, Barbers took that Ferrari and drove the hell out of it, but never bothered to take it in for routine maintenance. Jinks now has a Ferrari that went without an oil change for 25,000 miles and the tires are bald.

And you all are blaming the fact that Jinks drove that Ferrari off a cliff into Lake Erie on the fact that it was overdue for an oil change.

[hammb]

That is some great research. IMO, Babers didn't recruit at all. 3 OL in 2 years?

He signed either five or six in 2014 and 2015 classes which is about appropriate. He had several more lined up for 2016 by the time he left for Syracuse. There were some dropouts/attrition so only three remain from those two classes. Wherever the story started that Babers only recruited 3 OL, it is blatantly false.

I truly do not understand the sudden "it's all Babers' fault" mentality around here. It feels like trying to justify why our program is suddenly in the same boat as Kent State when we recently were in the same boat UCF is currently riding.

A coach needs to recruit well. Babers was weaker at recruiting than other recent coaches but he recruited well enough to win. He left Jinks a solid program. Jinks is clearly the better recruiter.

A coach needs to develop players continually. Babers did this masterfully. Look at the progressions of individual players and you saw evidence of good coaching. Jinks? Not sure I'm seeking much individual player development.

A coach needs to prepare players to win. Babers' teams came out to win all the time. Schematically they were ready far more often than not. Jinks? Next topic.

A coach needs to call the game smartly and out coach the opposing coach. Babers did this masterfully. Jinks? Next topic.

So what is my point here? I think Jinks can build a championship roster. I'm just not convinced he can win with a championship roster. He was handed a championship roster in 2016 - nation's most experienced offensive line, championship winning QB, career 1000 yard back, enough starters and depth from a championship defense - and we all know what happened. I'm still convinced that if Babers were around in 2016, we would have returned to Detroit though WMU would have won. I'm convinced we would have hung with OSU and Memphis and beaten MTSU - and also UT.

And BTW, of all those points listed above that a coach must do, Clawson did and did well. He recruited a phenomenal roster. He transformed a bunch of true freshmen into championship seniors. He developed a game changing defense and an offense to match it. And Clawson made the best halftime adjustments I've seen in recent coaches and out-coached opposing coaches the way Solich, Leipold, and Carey out-coached Jinks this year. We were so lucky to have two of the nation's best coaches consecutively. Yes I put both Clawson and Babers in that conversation of best head coaches. Jinks has big shoes to fill.

And I also echo the sentiments on the young coaching staff. All vertical moves. Not enough experience on this coaching staff. The staff came in with no mentors, no truly experienced coaches to guide them. I hope for a shakeup this off season. I would suggest a new DC, someone with prior head coaching experience if possible.

Jinks will have a very talented and experienced roster next year. If we see the other jobs a coach has to do I laid out above, we'll be in great shape going into the future. Prove me wrong, coaches.

Don't be too shocked Mark. Babers was never loved here on this board. From the moment he stepped on campus we heard whining about how he's just going to be going to his next job (well duh, any good head coach would). We have far too many old school types who get all bent out of shape when the players have fun and have bravado...a whole lot of bitching about "act like you've been there before."

I couldn't fathom it when he was winning games his first year here, with a completely night and day different offense, and doing it with his backup QB because the starter got hurt in week 1. And yet still, fans weren't happy.

Babers coaches modern football. He coaches modern football players. He puts up points, he talks the talk & walks the walk. No, he was never going to be a long term BG coach; Jinks wouldn't be either if he could actually coach. He wasn't a great recruiter, but some of his recruits that were lauded have done nothing under the current coaching. I firmly believe if Babers were still here we'd still be scoring 40+ a game with whoever he recruited here. Instead he's already done more at Syracuse then I ever thought possible. He's got people I respect on Twitter calling him an up & coming great coach. He's been on Mike & Mike several times and they love talking to him. You think he can't recruit? Yeah, being a national media presence will certainly help his recruiting.

Clawson was a great program builder. Dino was the perfect coach to take that program up a notch (and despite how much people on here deny it, he DID take the program to another level). Jinks is the perfect coach to wallow in the suck and hopefully learn how to coach while he lives out his 5 year contract that we cannot possibly afford to buy out. It appears he can recruit, and Doege & Clair look like damned good finds. Now we'll see if he can actually COACH these guys.