MAC Tournament must be thrilled

[gmartin]

The MAC tournament must be thrilled from last night's results.

Kent State squeaked out a two-point win over Northern Illinois. Akron came back from 25 points down to win by one point over Western Michigan. Toledo and Buffalo fans travel very well, especially since their women's programs will be in Cleveland as well. However, could you imagine the attendance figures in Cleveland if Kent State and Akron did not make the quarterfinals. With Kent State and Akron advancing it probably boosted attendance figures by 4500. I could easily see 5000 people attending the games from those two schools but only 500 from Western and Northern.

[It's the Journey...]

That's what happens when the tournament moves from the geographic center of the conference. The Seagate Center was TERRIBLE for MAC basketball, but I think Huntington Center (8000 capacity) full would look way better than the Q (20,000+ capacity) does only 1/3 full. Perception is everything. And when you look like you cannot fill an arena for your conference championship it is easy to dismiss the conference.

[hammb]

No way would I ever want to see the tournament moved from the Q to the Huntington center. The Huntington center sucks, and nothing would scream, "Your basketball means nothing," Like holding the tournament in an 8000 seat crappy venue.

The Q makes it feel big time. It's a big time NBA arena, with a big time scoreboard, in a big city that makes it actually feel special at the tournament time. Now yeah, it's not the most geographically centered location (Little Caesar's might be better), but at least it makes it feel like a real tournament.

Perception means nothing, the quality of our play ensures we're getting 1 bid, and it's going to be a crappy seed. If MAC hoops was good again they'd probably sell 10-12k tickets at the Q. The last time we played in the MAC title game (against KSU, so that adds a lot of butts) there were over 14k people there. Moving it to crappy Toledo, OH would destroy the MAC touranment, AFAIC

[Schadenfreude]

No way would I ever want to see the tournament moved from the Q to the Huntington center.

I completely agree. I was against the move from Toledo to Cleveland, but Cleveland has been fantastic. We fill the lower bowl for some finals. It's an NBA facility. We outdraw many other conferences with our current set up. (Hell, we may outdraw the Big Ten this year, although I haven't looked to see how they allegedly did in New York.)

This tradition we have established of playing the football final in Detroit and the basketball final in Cleveland is fine by me.

[Rollo83]

No way would I ever want to see the tournament moved from the Q to the Huntington center. The Huntington center sucks, and nothing would scream, "Your basketball means nothing," Like holding the tournament in an 8000 seat crappy venue.

The Q makes it feel big time. It's a big time NBA arena, with a big time scoreboard, in a big city that makes it actually feel special at the tournament time. Now yeah, it's not the most geographically centered location (Little Caesar's might be better), but at least it makes it feel like a real tournament.

Perception means nothing, the quality of our play ensures we're getting 1 bid, and it's going to be a crappy seed. If MAC hoops was good again they'd probably sell 10-12k tickets at the Q. The last time we played in the MAC title game (against KSU, so that adds a lot of butts) there were over 14k people there. Moving it to crappy Toledo, OH would destroy the MAC touranment, AFAIC

+1,000,000

[It's the Journey...]

I think it's funny this was in the Blaaaaa today.

CLEVELAND — Six years ago, the man in charge of the Huntington Center stood before the dozen athletic directors of the Mid-American Conference and made his pitch.

The MAC basketball tournament should return to our open arms.

First the women’s games, then perhaps the men’s, too.

“Toledo would be perfect,” Steve Miller said.

In a 35-minute presentation at a Cleveland hotel, he laid out the city’s selling points. The central location. The modern venue. The head-over-sneakers spirit for women’s hoops. Rather than play in front of several hundred fans scattered in a 20,000-seat arena in Cleveland — where, let’s be real, the four-day event moves the needle less than a broken sewing machine — Toledo offered the promise of several thousand fans packed into an 8,000-seat noise trap.

Naturally, the administrators at Toledo and Bowling Green, who helped Miller get the audience, loved the idea. The other ADs not so much, their concerns centered on the perception of gender bias — the men playing in a major league arena, the women in a minor league one — and the home-court advantage it assured our area schools. “I would say the response was lukewarm,” Toledo AD Mike O’Brien said.

Thanks but no thanks.

Like March Madness itself, the rejection has since become an annual tradition.

“I would love Toledo to get another chance at it,” said Miller, general manager of the Huntington Center. “I call the league every year.”

Keep up the good fight, Steve.

It may fall on deaf ears — or, going off some of the crowds here, no ears at all — but it is a worthy one.

Now, are we homers? Sure.

Realistically, the MAC tournament — which opened its 19th straight run in Cleveland on Wednesday — isn’t going anywhere. Well, unless Madison Square Garden has room for another Midwest cameo.

MSG: You can have the first week of January, but the Rangers are in town in Wednesday, so you have to play the championship game at 11 p.m. on ice.

MAC: Will it be on TV?

MSG: Yep, ESPNews, right after the junior Quidditch regionals.

MAC: Deal!

We kid because we love. Look, we all get it. The MAC wanted a bigger stage than Toledo and found it in Cleveland, where, along with its headquarters, the league moved its basketball tournament in 2000.

Who could argue against upgrading from the makeshift arena inside the SeaGate Centre — where the tournament was played from 1996-99 — to an NBA palace? Logistically, the move was and remains a hit. As much as we give the MAC grief, it runs its hoops festival at the Q as well as any major conference in the country, first-rate all the way.

“This place has everything we want and need,” MAC commissioner Jon Steinbrecher said.

And yet every year the tournament leaves us wanting, with the same thought: the MAC would do better in Toledo.

Here’s the deal: the tourney barely makes a dent in metro Cleveland, where, with the Indians in spring training, the Cavaliers fresh off their soup opera, and the Browns existing, the next minute of sports radio here spent on the MAC will be one of the first. In Toledo, the event’s return would be a weeklong civic celebration, not unlike the Marathon Classic golf tournament.

“It could take over a town like Toledo where it’s not going to take over Cleveland,” Toledo men’s coach Tod Kowalczyk said.

We keep saying it, but the 8-year-old Huntington Center is indeed the perfect venue in the perfect market.

At the least, the MAC should reconsider moving the women’s tournament back to Toledo. (The Huntington Center wants the men, too, but Miller said, “I’m not going to be selfish.”)

You can argue whether the entire tournament makes sense in Toledo.

Even with the upper deck cloaked in black curtains, the men’s atmospheres in Cleveland occasionally deliver. Take last year, when a crowd of 10,376 watched a best-case-scenario final between nearby rivals Kent State and Akron. Other seasons, the title games absent a local school average about half that while the early-round contests evoke a charnel house.

Our guess is Toledo would outdraw Cleveland, but who knows?

On the women’s side, there is no debate. I appreciate the gender-equity concerns and the appeal of playing in the House of LeBron, but I’d argue just the opposite: Toledo would give the women’s tourney the support and atmosphere it deserves.

This year, the final is likely to match two tournament-bound teams in Buffalo and Central Michigan, and the league might announce a crowd of 1,000.

One of the best things about our sports scene is the enthusiasm for women’s college hoops, including at Toledo, where the Rockets’ league-high average attendance last year (3,744 fans per game) would have ranked in the top half of every major conference. We’ll point out, too, more than 4,000 fans turned out to Savage Arena for the first-round games of the 2014 NCAA tourney, none of which included the hometown team. (Yes, Notre Dame was there, but Toledo did its part, too.)

The reality is the MAC women’s tournament in Cleveland is a financial loser, and, with its white knight waiting, the solution is simple. Similar to the major conferences, the league should separate its marquee events, deciding the women’s bracket in Toledo one week, the men’s in Cleveland the next, or vice versa, to maximize interest and exposure.

O’Brien, for one, hopes the league someday reconsiders. He praised the tourney in Cleveland, but believes it could do better in Toledo.

“There would be a lot of interest,” he said.

Until then, Miller will keep calling.

And we’ll keep dreaming.

I can see and understand the optics of the men playing in an NBA arena, but I would move the women't tournament in a heartbeat. It feels like a second class event to the men's tournament and a venue change would help that. We could see two MAC teams in the women's NCAA but will only get one men's team in because of an automatic bid. MAC women's basketball is, in my opinion, the stronger product but plays second chair.

[hammb]

Yeah, I couldn't possibly care less what they do for the women's tournament, but I could see the case to separate it from the men's tournament. Only thing I'd say is that if there ARE people that enjoy both tournaments they wouldn't be able to do so conveniently if you put the women 100+ miles away in Toledo.

The men's tournament typically has the bands/cheerleaders/etc. Do they also go to the women's games? If so, the logistics of moving to a different city would end that as well.

It's been years since I've done the whole MAC tournament (life, quality of play, etc), but what I remember was a great week in Cleveland. Meeting fans/band members/etc out at the bars in the evening, enjoying tons of great hoops during the games, etc. Toledo cannot hold a fraction of a candle to what Cleveland offers for the tournament (tons of nightlife within walking distance of an NBA arena). I can see why some people might want to separate the women's tournament from the men's, but I'm curious if the teams don't also enjoy getting to play in the big arena. Let's face it, for all the moaning of that article women's basketball takes a backburner to men's basketball in nearly every school, conference, and arena in the country; with very few exceptions (UCONN, Tennessee, etc).

[It's the Journey...]

All valid points, and I know you are not the biggest fan of the women's game. I prefer it to the men's game because I like to see things played below the rim. But to each their own.

If you were to separate the tournaments they would have to also claim different weekends. The bands and cheerleaders do travel for both men's and women's depending on the school. Separate weekends would be a must. I think the development around 5/3 field would support the crowds from a tournament.

As to the moaning, if the women's game is taking a back seat, why not make it the best back seat we can?

I did a bit of googling and it looks like the WAC and Horizon are the only D1 conferences other than the MAC that hold their men's and women's conference basketball tournaments at the same site.

Maybe this all a wash since football is driving the bus and the MAC could really care less about basketball.

[gmartin]

Saving money on concessions too. The leftover popcorn and hot dogs from yesterday's women's games can be used today at the men's games.

I do disagree with the band however. Each the women and men have separate pep bands unless that has changed over the last 3 years. Also about six less cheerleaders at the women's game then the men's game. I think having the men and women at the same venue is the way to go. I personally followed both so I would want to go to both the men and women at the same site.

[Redwingtom]

Hell, we may outdraw the Big Ten this year, although I haven't looked to see how they allegedly did in New York.

Yeah...no. MSG was packed for the MSU-UM game with a sellout of 19,812.

Attendance at the Purdue-UM final was 15,063, or 76% of capacity.

And that's in a city where they care nothing about college basketball.

[Flipper]

I don't know about that....there was a time when New York was THE center of college hoops. It may not be as popular now as it was then...but if you were to aggregate the following of all the colleges within a couple hundred miles of NYC..you'd see there's still a lot of interest

[Lord_Byron]

Correct. The general consensus is that while NYC doesn't care much about college football, college hoops remain relatively popular. With the decline of the Big East, it's not as evident, but there is still a lot of interest in Syracuse, Seton Hall and St Johns.

[gmartin]

And Moose had the guts to fire Jennifer Roos!!! Let The Healing begin. Wonder what will happen to coach Huger next year

[Schadenfreude]

I can see and understand the optics of the men playing in an NBA arena, but I would move the women't tournament in a heartbeat.

I like the idea. The arena is right sized. it's a central location. If they could get a couple of thousand fans to come no matter what, it could be a good atmosphere.

[Rollo83]

I don't know about that....there was a time when New York was THE center of college hoops. It may not be as popular now as it was then...but if you were to aggregate the following of all the colleges within a couple hundred miles of NYC..you'd see there's still a lot of interest

I thought Philly was as strong of a college basketball town as there was back in the day. The Palestra hosting teams like Villanova, Penn, St. Joseph, Temple, La Salle.