Josh Harris

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:40 pm

Nobody can dispute that Harris can and will be the quarterback of the future for the Brownies. The question for you is when will he be the starter? Will Romeo be impressed enough by him to give him rights to #1 in the QB charts or will he have to wait if Savage brings in a free-agent?

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:54 pm

Nobody can dispute that Harris can and will be the quarterback of the future for the Brownies.

golfertk14:

While I appreciate your optimism and hope that you are correct, the true question is, will Josh Harris be on the Browns roster when the season opens? Because, not only can many dispute that Harris can and will be the QB of the future, a gambling man would bet against it.

The Browns have made it clear they are looking for a veteran to open the season as a starter, whether it be Kelly Holcomb, Jay Fiedler or Trent Dilfer (the latest rumor du jour).

While some say the front office has soured on Luke McCown, they might be reticent to dump another recent draft choice, since they've recently purged all but one member of Butch Davis' first draft class (that being a sixth-round pick).

There is also some momentum building among draftnicks that the Browns will pick either Rogers (Cal) or Smith (Utah) with their first pick. If that happens, I'd expect the Browns to pick up another veteran and cut both Harris and McCown loose.

I believe Harris has the skill and, as hammb often puts it, the "it" to be a very good NFL quarterback. Whether he ever really gets the opportunity, with the Browns or any other team, remains to be seen.

falconman · Post by **falconman** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:54 pm

Harris will be lucky to see the field during the reagular season this year.

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:06 pm

I would expect that if the Browns decided to cut him, he'd be on the practice squad the next day.

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:15 pm

nah, i think he'll start...Holcomb's gonna leave and I don't blame him a bit, and after Miami's season you REAALLLLY think they want someone from a team with less than five wins??

SaxyIrishTenor · Post by **SaxyIrishTenor** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:20 pm

Kid, do you pay attention to sports? I love your optimism and I'd like to see Harris take the lead as much as the next gal, but I'm a realist. IF my Brownies keep him, he'll sit the bench.

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:31 pm

It's more likely that Josh will never play a down than it is for him to be the cleveland starter. I highly doubt he ever plays a down for cleveland.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:41 pm

Here is a quote from the Browns' GM ``If (Holcomb) doesn't sign, we'll move to the next guy. If the next guy doesn't sign, we'll move on. We do have two young quarterbacks on the team (Luke McCown and Josh Harris) and, if push comes to shove, we'll play with the young quarterback.''

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:11 pm

I follow the Browns as closely as anyone here, and I can say that at the VERY least I can dispute the fact that he is the QB of the future. Right now it'd be a stretch to believe he's ahead of McCown in the eyes of the coaches & FO.

As '87 mentioned, I believe Josh has "it". Unfortunately that's nearly all he has. He's short by NFL standards for a QB. That is important because he needs to see over the line, he will be forced to find passing lanes. Not something unheard of, but a disability for sure. He has a strong arm, but nothing special by NFL standards. He is above Couch & Holcomb in arm strength, but his arm is no stronger than McCown's and is certainly no Favre or Vick. He struggled with bouts of inaccuracy throughout his college career. Accuracy & Completion % is one thing that is usually fairly steady when one makes the jump from college to pros, his wasn't setting the world on fire in college. He played in our whacked out system. I guarantee you when Omar is going into the draft that will be the one HUGE knock on him, our system does not prepare a QB for the pros. He was a run first guy. When J5 made plays outside of the pocket he looked to run more than throw...the NFL doesn't like that.

Look, he has enough tools to be good. He definitely has the moxie & leadership ability to be great. But he is not overflowing with raw talent, he will need to work to earn everything he ever sees. I'd say right now the chances that he never takes a snap in a regular season NFL game are about as good as his starting a single game are right now. That's right I'd offer those as even odds if I were Vegas.

I love J5, and want him to succeed probably more than nearly anyone, for all the hard work I put into h4h.com. But I'd be fooling myself to say he's a lock to be the future of the Browns.

FALCON FLIER · Post by **FALCON FLIER** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:51 am

I think Josh will be given every opportunity to win a place on the roster as the backup to Kelly Holcombe. I don't believe the Browns will draft a quarterback into possibly in the later rounds. IMO they will keep the number 3 pick and take Derrick Johnson the linebacker from Texas.
What works to Josh's advantage is that McCown was given an opportunity last season and the Browns were not overly impressed so IMO that puts Josh even or ahead of McCown in their eyes. There is quite a bit of talk about them bringing in Trent Dilfer from Seattle. Even if they do, neither he nor Holcombe are going to be the long term answer at quarterback. The bottom line is Josh will be given every opportunity to win a spot either as a backup or a future starter and that is all anyone can ask for.

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:26 am

FALCON FLIER wrote:I think Josh will be given every opportunity to win a place on the roster as the backup to Kelly Holcombe. I don't believe the Browns will draft a quarterback into possibly in the later rounds.

If the Browns draft a quarterback, be it with the number 1 pick (Smith, Rogers) or a later pick (homeboy Frye?), it's bad news for Harris, an indication that the Browns do not believe that they have their quarterback of the future on the roster.

FALCON FLIER wrote:IMO they will keep the number 3 pick and take Derrick Johnson the linebacker from Texas.

I hope you're right. Johnson is an impact player that could dominate in the 3-4.

FALCON FLIER wrote:What works to Josh's advantage is that McCown was given an opportunity last season and the Browns were not overly impressed so IMO that puts Josh even or ahead of McCown in their eyes.

Your BG bias is showing here. Everyone realizes that McCown was not surrounded by much NFL-caliber talent when he was thrust into the starting spot. The only place I've actually seen anyone say that the Browns may be down on McCown was in a Roger Brown column (man, that's almost a poem!), which is not exactly a font of reliable information.

FALCON FLIER wrote:There is quite a bit of talk about them bringing in Trent Dilfer from Seattle. Even if they do, neither he nor Holcombe are going to be the long term answer at quarterback.

I think that's a given.

FALCON FLIER wrote: The bottom line is Josh will be given every opportunity to win a spot either as a backup or a future starter and that is all anyone can ask for.

He'll be given a chance to win a roster spot, no doubt. The odds of him suceeding are still longer than most of us would like.

BGDrew wrote:I would expect that if the Browns decided to cut him, he'd be on the practice squad the next day.

I don't believe that's a lock. Last year the Browns were carrying Garcia, Holcomb and McCown. Did they have a fourth QB on the practice squad, too? I know Hybl was around, but I'm not sure he was actually on the practice squad.

I would expect a similar situation to pan out in '05. Veteran (Holcomb, Dilfer, Fiedler) to start, that seems certain. If the Browns draft another QB, that guy is on the roster. That leaves one more spot for either McCown or Harris. Even if J5 were on the practice squad in this scenario, it's not pretty; he'd be behind two other young quarterbacks.

Bottom line - it's an uphill battle. I'm pulling for Josh and praying for him (and his wife & baby-on-the-way).

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:58 pm

1987alum wrote:
FALCON FLIER wrote:IMO they will keep the number 3 pick and take Derrick Johnson the linebacker from Texas.
I hope you're right. Johnson is an impact player that could dominate in the 3-4.

I must say that I disagree entirely. Not that they might pick him, because they very well might, but I don't believe DJ to be that great of an impact player. I especially don't think that he's best suited for Crennel's 3-4 type scheme.

In NE Crennel's OLB were basically tweener DE types. DJ is not big enough, IMO, to play that role effectively. He was best used in pursuit, sideliine to sideline, where he had the ability to use his athletic ability to his advantage. DJ's biggest weakness is his lack of physicality in taking on OL and shedding blocks. That is something that is an absolute prerequisite for Crennel's 3-4. With only 3 down linemen, the OLBs are expected to rush the passer on a bulk of the plays, which obviously requires the ability to take on and shed blocks.

Most importantly to me, if I'm taking a LB in the top 5 I want him to be a bad ass mofo who is just crazy as hell. Somebody that the opponent must game plan around and run away from. However, if you watch DJ's games at Texas he best way to attack himi is to run right at him. In doing so you lock him up with a block, and generally take away his capability to utilize his athletic ability. In games where opponents ran directly at him, he was less than stellar (see UM in the bowl game).

DJ could be a great player, although I feel he is better suited for a 4-3 than a 3-4. I'm not sure whether or not Crennel will successfully implement a 3-4 this season, but if that is his goal for the following year, I don't think that DJj is the best choice. I'm not even sold on him as a top 10 pick, even if we were to stick with the 4-3.

BTW, DJ's wonderlick was awful (not even close to finishing the questions). At the combine he bulked up to 240 pounds, but he also ran a disappointing 40 time of around 4.60. The kid made an impact in college, but I'm not convinced he's the type of LB who will come in and make an impact in the NFL.

tekekini · Post by **tekekini** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:55 pm

nah, i think he'll start...Holcomb's gonna leave and I don't blame him a bit, and after Miami's season you REAALLLLY think they want someone from a team with less than five wins??

come on. that was after an abnormal season with many unfavorable situations. Fiedler has done nothing but win when he was in Miami. his winning percentage as a starter is well over .600 he just never had a team there good enough to finish strong. you must not know much about football. you know nothing about the players or how the NFL works

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:13 pm

SaxyIrishTenor wrote:Kid, do you pay attention to sports? I love your optimism and I'd like to see Harris take the lead as much as the next gal, but I'm a realist. IF my Brownies keep him, he'll sit the bench.

Look "kid", I've been with the Brownies since I was born (1987 you figure it out) I've been a dawg since the doctor said, "Call up Art Modell, we got a new lineman for the Browns!" You can criticize me for my Falcons knowledge, which it little since I've been a fan for only two years...but never....EVER....EVER question my Browns intelligence. You got that?

BGFalcons232 · Post by **BGFalcons232** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:38 pm

golfertk14 wrote: Look "kid", I've been with the Brownies since I was born (1987 you figure it out) I've been a dawg since the doctor said, "Call up Art Modell, we got a new lineman for the Browns!" You can criticize me for my Falcons knowledge, which it little since I've been a fan for only two years...but never....EVER....EVER question my Browns intelligence. You got that?

easy there kid. fact is J5 will have a hard time cracking the browns roster. if you listen to what phil savage said today when talking about harris and mccown, it was something along the lines of him expecting both to top out as capable backups.

of course, holcomb leaving town will help josh, but not that much. the browns will still sign a veteran like kurt warner or trade for trent dilfer. the only way harris stays on the browns is if they do not draft a QB, which they very well may in aaron rodgers or alex smith in the first round or charlie frye in the second round.

if you really knew that much about the browns, you'd know that harris was only brought here because a freak rash of injuries to the QBs. to annoint him as the next otto graham as you seem to be doing is ludicrous.