Moving to the MAC

[BillyLP]

Saying "I'm gonna buy 100% into what an expert says ...no matter how wrong his takes prove to be...because someone else told me to" is so....dumb

Breaking my previous promise of not chiming in anymore re: COVID: A lot of experts, including at the medical research place I work, have been basically spot on since the beginning, and have predicted all of the spikes that have happened. So yeah, I have bought in to what they say.

I think most of the college programs have done a decent job with testing and keeping people safe, to my surprise, but I think the crowds (99% unmasked) in some of the stadiums have been a bit much, and there has been evidence of increased spread in areas with larger crowds. 5-10% capacity spaced out seems reasonable to me, though, even if it means 10,000 at Ohio Stadium. That place is so massive that 10,000 people (assuming they are in groups of 2-6) would have more than enough room to be spread out. Same with 2,000 at the Doyt.

Also, Ryquell Armstead has shown us that even professional athletes at peak condition are not fully immune, and I really worry about the long-term effect of heart inflammation that has been tracked in some preliminary studies of college athletes, particularly black athletes, but we won't fully know about that for maybe years. I'm one of the weird people who thinks everything should have been shut down with mask mandates put in place for 6 weeks in March so that we wouldn't even be in this position at this point, but what do I know? I'm just a dumbass who likes to listen to the experts.

[Flipper]

Please...their advice and predictions have been all over the map...wear a mask..don't wear a mask...lockdowns are the answer...lockdowns aren't the answer. Two million will die...960,000 will die..

Worldwide...flu cases are off 98%...that suggests a lot of misdiagnosed Covid cases out there.

People are locking themselves away and businesses have been killed permanently over a disease that has a actual fatality rate close to that of the flu.
Suicides, overdoses, violent crimes...all of these are up precipitously since the decision was made to shut everything down. Let's not get into all the serious illnesses that were ignored out of fear over seeking treatment. It would have been so much smarter to protect the vulnerable...and the data CLEARLY indicates who they are...while letting the rest of the world carry on

[BillyLP]

Please...their advice and predictions have been all over the map...wear a mask..don't wear a mask...lockdowns are the answer...lockdowns aren't the answer. Two million will die...960,000 will die..

Worldwide...flu cases are off 98%...that suggests a lot of misdiagnosed Covid cases out there.

People are locking themselves away and businesses have been killed permanently over a disease that has a actual fatality rate close to that of the flu.
Suicides, overdoses, violent crimes...all of these are up precipitously since the decision was made to shut everything down. Let's not get into all the serious illnesses that were ignored out of fear over seeking treatment. It would have been so much smarter to protect the vulnerable...and the data CLEARLY indicates who they are...while letting the rest of the world carry on

Man, there is so much incorrect here that I literally don't have the time to break it down step-by-step, but let me tell you as a person who literally works in a hospital that the flu doesn't have s**t on this, and the fatality rate (which is exponentially higher, by the way) doesn't come close to telling the story. Seeing healthy 25, 30, 35, 40 year olds on ventilators for weeks doesn't happen during flu season. Do they survive? Typically, but they have damage to their heart and lungs that will likely never go away.

"Oh, but the pre-existing and underlying conditions!!" Yeah, duh. Where do you think the flu death numbers typically come from? Doesn't mean they should be dead. "Flu numbers are down so it must be fake covid positives!" Or maybe the fact that the world is still mostly distancing and wearing masks and sanitizing more frequently, the flu hasn't had an opportunity to manifest and spread like a typical year, which the CDC and most health organizations around the world have been predicting anyway.

[Falconwriter]

As noted, the reason flu cases are down (Australia basically didn't have a flu season this year) is because of all the Covid precautions -- those are the same steps you'd take to prevent flu. If people are wearing masks and washing hands frequently, and distancing (or staying home) common sense says you won't have as many cases of influenza (or as many common colds, for that matter).

[hammb]

Please...their advice and predictions have been all over the map...wear a mask..don't wear a mask...lockdowns are the answer...lockdowns aren't the answer. Two million will die...960,000 will die..

Worldwide...flu cases are off 98%...that suggests a lot of misdiagnosed Covid cases out there.

People are locking themselves away and businesses have been killed permanently over a disease that has a actual fatality rate close to that of the flu.
Suicides, overdoses, violent crimes...all of these are up precipitously since the decision was made to shut everything down. Let's not get into all the serious illnesses that were ignored out of fear over seeking treatment. It would have been so much smarter to protect the vulnerable...and the data CLEARLY indicates who they are...while letting the rest of the world carry on

Man, there is so much incorrect here that I literally don't have the time to break it down step-by-step, but let me tell you as a person who literally works in a hospital that the flu doesn't have s**t on this, and the fatality rate (which is exponentially higher, by the way) doesn't come close to telling the story. Seeing healthy 25, 30, 35, 40 year olds on ventilators for weeks doesn't happen during flu season. Do they survive? Typically, but they have damage to their heart and lungs that will likely never go away.

"Oh, but the pre-existing and underlying conditions!!" Yeah, duh. Where do you think the flu death numbers typically come from? Doesn't mean they should be dead. "Flu numbers are down so it must be fake covid positives!" Or maybe the fact that the world is still mostly distancing and wearing masks and sanitizing more frequently, the flu hasn't had an opportunity to manifest and spread like a typical year, which the CDC and most health organizations around the world have been predicting anyway.

You have more patience for responding to completely asinine statements than I do.

I can speak anecdotally without spending a second finding the numbers to expound upon my personal experiences. I have had 2 friends spend multiple weeks in the ICU. One is a completely healthy late 40s mom, the other is a diabetic out of shape 40 year old. Neither of these friends died (thank goodness), but their lives have been completely altered. The 40 year old friend contracted the virus in June, didn't get out of the hospital until late July and STILL has yet to get completely off Oxygen or return to work.

Meanwhile, in my 40 years of life I've never known anybody of any age (not grandparents, not great grandparents, not co-workers, etc) to spend 2+ weeks in ICU because of the flu.

[roguewarrior]

Thousands of old people die from the flu annually, as everyone on earth knows. Do you think they die in their sleep!?! Of course they spend days and weeks in ICU, as shocking as that is to you.

[guest44]

13 million in student fees, and even the most loyal BG Football supporters are more interested in politics than the season which is a week away.

[roguewarrior]

13 million in student fees, and even the most loyal BG Football supporters are more interested in politics than the season which is a week away.

The loyal supporters of watching football are Only interested in Football. We are subverted on this forum to debate the resumption of games with Covid milquetoasts , and then by characters obsessed with the budget and allocations of funds paid by students attending BG, of their own free will.

[pdt1081]

Please...their advice and predictions have been all over the map...wear a mask..don't wear a mask...lockdowns are the answer...lockdowns aren't the answer. Two million will die...960,000 will die..

Worldwide...flu cases are off 98%...that suggests a lot of misdiagnosed Covid cases out there.

People are locking themselves away and businesses have been killed permanently over a disease that has a actual fatality rate close to that of the flu.
Suicides, overdoses, violent crimes...all of these are up precipitously since the decision was made to shut everything down. Let's not get into all the serious illnesses that were ignored out of fear over seeking treatment. It would have been so much smarter to protect the vulnerable...and the data CLEARLY indicates who they are...while letting the rest of the world carry on

Bottom line is if the government and media started telling people 2+2=5, there would be people here that would argue with you about it, because they are told so. It's amazing how "follow the science" had turned into "your science is wrong because it doesn't support what we want." By springtime, Covid cases will drop, influenza cases, common cold cases, and viral pneumonia cases will all rise back to normal levels. By next fall, Covid will be forgotten and the media will move on to the next big "crisis."

[BillyLP]

Thousands of old people die from the flu annually, as everyone on earth knows. Do you think they die in their sleep!?! Of course they spend days and weeks in ICU, as shocking as that is to you.

Yeah, old people. I've mentioned on here before that my dad died of the flu in early 2019. He was in his 70s, had kidney failure, heart problems, etc, but the flu is what killed him after spending two days in ICU. When he got the flu, even after vaccination, we worried that would be the outcome from the beginning (Not a pity story, just giving some context). If I get the flu, even with asthma, I miss work for two days, hydrate, pop Tylenol, and I'm feeling fine after a week. I'm talking about healthy young people able to run triathlons one week and being on a ventilator the next due to COVID. That didn't happen once during flu season last year, and has happened just about weekly since March in my hospital alone.

By the way, I wasn't trying to start a debate of whether football should be back. I felt that it shouldn't, but now that it is, I think most schools have done a nice job, and I'm pumped to watch BG beat Toledo. I even think having 1,500 fans or so at the Doyt is acceptable if done right. But I did take issue with flip broad brushing that listening to experts is dumb. Have suggestions changed over time? Yeah! It was a brand new disease that we are constantly learning more about. We don't give heroin cough syrup to kids anymore, because turns out....not a great idea (though the kids probably argued differently). Largely, the experts that I have been around and listened to have given great suggestions from the beginning that have proven to be correct, even though they have been widely ignored.

[Falconwriter]

Thousands of old people die from the flu annually, as everyone on earth knows. Do you think they die in their sleep!?! Of course they spend days and weeks in ICU, as shocking as that is to you.

God only knows why I'm bothering but here goes...

Covid is WORSE than the regular flu virus for a couple reasons. First and foremost it's a novel virus, so nobody has any prior immunity to help their body fight it off. With the flu, we've been exposed to variants of these strains over and over again, and it helps our body rally its defenses.

Probably more importantly, Covid is also a virus that targets the lungs. The common flu does not necessarily do that. And because of how it targets the lungs, the body can over-react and you get people whose lungs fill with fluids to the point they cannot breathe without assistance.

That's as clear as I can be. If you want to keep telling yourself there is no difference between these viruses, then have at it. You are only making a fool of yourself.

[roguewarrior]

My commentary was a response to the pasted quote below, where dude never heard of anyone going into ICU from the flu.......uuggh

Meanwhile, in my 40 years of life I've never known anybody of any age (not grandparents, not great grandparents, not co-workers, etc) to spend 2+ weeks in ICU because of the flu.

[guest44]

Like I said...even the parent of the BGSU Football player prefers to talk Covid more than BGSU Football. Imagine being a student paying for it?

[BillyLP]

Like I said...even the parent of the BGSU Football player prefers to talk Covid more than BGSU Football. Imagine being a student paying for it?

Yeah, man. We get it. You don't like that students pay for athletics. It's not going to change. It happens at BG, it happens at Toledo, it happens at Vermont, it happens at the University of Virginia. James Madison students pay like $3,000 a year towards athletics. Miami of Ohio students pay several hundred dollars a year more than BG students towards athletics. Don't like it? Stop watching college sports.

[hammb]

My commentary was a response to the pasted quote below, where dude never heard of anyone going into ICU from the flu.......uuggh

Meanwhile, in my 40 years of life I've never known anybody of any age (not grandparents, not great grandparents, not co-workers, etc) to spend 2+ weeks in ICU because of the flu.

I prefaced my entire post with saying it was an ANECDOTE. My personal experience. At no point did I ever say, "I've never heard of anyone going to the ICU"

In my personal experience I've known nobody that has had to spend multiple weeks in ICU because of the flu. In 6 months time I've known two people, who are far from elderly, have to spend weeks in the ICU.

Since you're too obtuse to understand the points I was trying to make, I'll spell them out for you:

1. My experience is that COVID is far more likely to send people to the ICU than the flu.
2. My experience is that COVID is FAAAR more likely to send young, even sometimes healthy young, people to the ICU than the flu.
3. My experience is that even though these young people do not become one of the "death" statistics that seemingly are the only thing people of your ilk are concerned with, their lives are drastically altered (thankfully my 40 year old friend was able to finally return to work this week).
4. These personal experiences jive with data and stories I've read; statistically COVID is a far bigger issue for older or unhealthy folks, but that is true of the flu and most other illnesses as well. Unlike the flu this has potential to incapacitate healthy adults, and is also far worse for those older/vulnerable folks than even the flu.
5. Thus, my final conclusion that saying things like, "a disease that has a[n] actual fatality rate close to that of the flu" is an asinine statement. It discounts the negative effects of those that don't die, and that was even IF the statement was true (which I don't think is even remotely close to being). It's equally asinine to imply that flu numbers are down because people are being misdiagnosed with COVID instead, rather than the far more likely explanation that precautions in place to slow COVID are having an even more profound effect in slowing the flu (which most scientists would have hypothesized given influenza is not nearly as contagious as this corona virus appears to be).