Ohio 1/11

[hammb]

Since this is the Ohio thread...

For the last "normal(ish)" year of college athletics here are the audit numbers for both OU & BGSU...

https://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Rep ... _FINAL.pdf

https://ohioauditor.gov/auditsearch/Rep ... 0-Wood.pdf


My Key takeaways...

* Thanks to the Bill Frack money we get quite a bit more actual revenue than OU to our basketball program. OU lists their institutional support dollars as revenue, BG audits all of their's as non-sport specific, but actual revenue, BG is a couple hundred thousand higher.

* BG shows more revenue even though they're clearly cooking the books by realizing $0 in basketball revenue from concessions, parking, etc. There's our answer why you can NOT go to the University and purchase a parking pass any longer. That money has to get funneled through the Falcon club and they give you a "Free" parking pass. This is why, so they can take money away from basketball since the Frack money largely finances the program.

* BG gives up, by comparison, $100k in revenue by NOT being willing to play better opponents on the road.

* This is basically offset by spending less on guarantees because we're not willing to play better opponents at home either

* We spent 3x what OU spent on "Equipment", more on travel (to play lesser competition), and more on recruiting than they did (although this year is less than the year guest posted).

* This is the big one. We spend almost the exact same on Coaching and support staff salaries as OU. We spend plenty to get upper echelon coaching by MAC standards. And we don't get that Return on our Investment.

[Falconwriter]

Would someone please explain to me why BG's coaches apparently refuse to recruit all the talent in Central Ohio? Unless they're just really bad at recruiting the Columbus area (which I guess is possible), it's inexplicable to me. There is a world of talent between the Ohio Capital Conference and the city League, and teams like OU are making out like bandits by getting it on-board. But BG apparently ignores this potential talent pool. By the way, OU is getting a really, really good guard next year in Ajay Sheldon from Dublin Coffman who dropped 38 on Upper Arlington as Dublin handed them their first loss.

[hammb]

Would someone please explain to me why BG's coaches apparently refuse to recruit all the talent in Central Ohio? Unless they're just really bad at recruiting the Columbus area (which I guess is possible), it's inexplicable to me. There is a world of talent between the Ohio Capital Conference and the city League, and teams like OU are making out like bandits by getting it on-board. But BG apparently ignores this potential talent pool. By the way, OU is getting a really, really good guard next year in Ajay Sheldon from Dublin Coffman who dropped 38 on Upper Arlington as Dublin handed them their first loss.

Tougher to justify $100k+ recruiting budgets if you're only driving to Columbus?

It's not JUST Columbus. We haven't signed a kid from Toledo since Anthony Henry. I don't think we've had a Cleveland area kid since Antwon Lillard, and I cannot really think of a Columbus area kid since Raheem Moss/Ronald Lewis.

Currently I think Fulcher (Lima) is the only kid we recruited out of HS that played in Ohio. Hell, I think Turner might be the only kid we have from Michigan. Curtis & O'Neal are also Ohio kids, but via transfer.

This is clearly a Huger recruiting strategy that is a SHARP contrast from all of our previous coaches. I would never ask somebody to emulate the Orr recruiting methods, because clearly he didn't recruit hardly anybody worth a damn, but going back Dakich's teams and [from what I recall] Larranaga's teams were all heavily invested in Ohio. It is tough to really complain too much about Huger's recruiting, he's brought in more talent than we've seen in the past 15 years, but it is a definite difference in philosophy. I do think it's probably fueled by having a larger recruiting budget so casting a wider net to find talent, but I think in casting that net we're probably missing the fish that are right in our own state. We certainly seem to be less invested in Ohio talent than pretty much every other Ohio MAC school.

[fredthefalcon]

Speaking of casting a wide net, one look at Toledo's 2023 recruiting offers compared to BG's tells a story. Verbal Commits shows UT with 30+ offers and BG with just one. I know it is not the be all of recruiting but I think it is a significant factor. I also think Huger still likes to recruit his old hs playing grounds out East.

[BPardonMyTake]

You are all very clearly much more educated on the program's finances than myself so kudos for all the research/insight. I do agree it's an absolute disgrace the games they've decided on being the "Bill Frack Challenge" are conference games and m'fing Findlay over the past few years. I didn't even have the honor of knowing Mr. Frack and it literally offends me just as a fan on his behalf.



Serious question though----Does it really bother everyone how much Huger makes? Would we all be ok with his mediocrity if he made 75k/year? I understand full picture it's not a great look, but there are plenty of coaches that get paid more than they should. Dambrot off the top of my head makes $1mil/ year and Duquesne stinks. Doesn't make it right, just not sure it should be the #1 topic of discussion at the moment.

[BillyLP]

You are all very clearly much more educated on the program's finances than myself so kudos for all the research/insight. I do agree it's an absolute disgrace the games they've decided on being the "Bill Frack Challenge" are conference games and m'fing Findlay over the past few years. I didn't even have the honor of knowing Mr. Frack and it literally offends me just as a fan on his behalf.



Serious question though----Does it really bother everyone how much Huger makes? Would we all be ok with his mediocrity if he made 75k/year? I understand full picture it's not a great look, but there are plenty of coaches that get paid more than they should. Dambrot off the top of my head makes $1mil/ year and Duquesne stinks. Doesn't make it right, just not sure it should be the #1 topic of discussion at the moment.

I agree with you. Coaches are getting paid what we can afford to pay them. Huger making $450k a year or whatever is no big deal to me. Even Wright State pays their head coach more. The question shouldn't be "Is he doing a good job for what we are paying him?" as much as it should be "Is he doing a good job?" So far this season, the answer is no.

[guest44]

BGSU paid Chris Jans what it paid him because they knew he could coach. BGSU paid Huger what it paid Jans even though they didn’t need to. Bob Moosbrugger gave Huger a unwarranted raise & extension to be below .500 in the MAC. It’s not the fault of Huger that Moosbrugger and Hughes were incompetent in the evaluation of the program. Bowling Green basketball doesn’t win because it can’t evaluate it’s own coaches properly. It’s very difficult to go this many decades and never have the best coach in the conference.

[Flipper]

Spending resources poorly is a management issue...virtually everything about the Athletic department seems to be a resource management issue

[TommyG]

Just wait til they announce a Loeffler extension in August

[threestooges]

Speaking of casting a wide net, one look at Toledo's 2023 recruiting offers compared to BG's tells a story. Verbal Commits shows UT with 30+ offers and BG with just one. I know it is not the be all of recruiting but I think it is a significant factor. I also think Huger still likes to recruit his old hs playing grounds out East.

I don't know a ton about recruiting, & maybe it would be good if we had offered more than one 2023 recruit by now. (Also, maybe we have, & they're just not all listed on verbal commits.)

But, what are people's thoughts on UT's methods? I feel like it could be detrimental to them down the road. What if 10-12 of those 30+ recruits accept their offers & they have to turn around & say no to a large portion of those kids? Or, do they tell all 30+ kids that only 4 or 5 (or however many they have room for) will be accepted, in order to get those kids to commit early? It feels to me like that could come back to bite them down the road, where future recruits might be told (by other schools, etc.), "Don't take an offer from UT seriously - they give offers to everyone, & it doesn't mean they really want you."

Again, I don't know a lot about the recruiting process, so maybe there's something I'm missing?

[hammb]

The only reason I care about Huger's salary is because we can afford to pay it. The Bill Frack money SHOULD have changed BG basketball. Louis Orr was making below $225k a year, and I believe was in the $175k a year range before his (also unwarranted) extension. Bill Frack came forward with a bunch of money to help fund the program, and then gave MORE money to land Chris Jans, because he was a young rising coaching star. After Mr. Frack's passing the morons in charge of our Athletic Department just took that same contract and gave it to an alum that was not at all in demand.

At the end of the day I'm not going to be any more happy with the job Huger has done here if he were making $200k than I am with him making $450k. The difference is that Frack money should have set the bar higher. When we can afford to pay among the top programs in the MAC it is fair to expect some of the best coaching in the MAC. Instead we have top end recruiting and bottom end coaching.

The bottom line is that the BG basketball program has the funding to be in the top 2-3 of the MAC as a perennial conference power. It should not want for resources when compared to its conference peers. Instead we see this program run the exact same way as every other program on campus where nobody seems to give a s**t if they win or not as long as us long time ticket buyers still keep baa-baaing our way to season tickets.

[Flipper]

To quote an old associate of mine..."we're paying Red Lobster money for a McDonald's fish sandwich"

[fredthefalcon]

Speaking of casting a wide net, one look at Toledo's 2023 recruiting offers compared to BG's tells a story. Verbal Commits shows UT with 30+ offers and BG with just one. I know it is not the be all of recruiting but I think it is a significant factor. I also think Huger still likes to recruit his old hs playing grounds out East.

I don't know a ton about recruiting, & maybe it would be good if we had offered more than one 2023 recruit by now. (Also, maybe we have, & they're just not all listed on verbal commits.)

But, what are people's thoughts on UT's methods? I feel like it could be detrimental to them down the road. What if 10-12 of those 30+ recruits accept their offers & they have to turn around & say no to a large portion of those kids? Or, do they tell all 30+ kids that only 4 or 5 (or however many they have room for) will be accepted, in order to get those kids to commit early? It feels to me like that could come back to bite them down the road, where future recruits might be told (by other schools, etc.), "Don't take an offer from UT seriously - they give offers to everyone, & it doesn't mean they really want you."

Again, I don't know a lot about the recruiting process, so maybe there's something I'm missing?

Schools rarely if ever speak about an individual player offer until signed. Most of the information comes from the players themselves as well as social media info from recruiting sites, local newspapers, high schools, etc. That's the sources verbal commits and the like use though it is possible that they do have inside sources at various schools. As for the multitude of offers by UT there are likely players they have no chance of getting but interest can mean a lot specifically in case of future transfers. They have been very successful in that realm in the past years. Really unless someone commits and the school seems onboard and then pulls the offer then maybe there will be some friction and repercussions but in most likelihood people understand the game and it's a little like dating.

[Falconwriter]

Would someone please explain to me why BG's coaches apparently refuse to recruit all the talent in Central Ohio? Unless they're just really bad at recruiting the Columbus area (which I guess is possible), it's inexplicable to me. There is a world of talent between the Ohio Capital Conference and the city League, and teams like OU are making out like bandits by getting it on-board. But BG apparently ignores this potential talent pool. By the way, OU is getting a really, really good guard next year in Ajay Sheldon from Dublin Coffman who dropped 38 on Upper Arlington as Dublin handed them their first loss.

Tougher to justify $100k+ recruiting budgets if you're only driving to Columbus?

It's not JUST Columbus. We haven't signed a kid from Toledo since Anthony Henry. I don't think we've had a Cleveland area kid since Antwon Lillard, and I cannot really think of a Columbus area kid since Raheem Moss/Ronald Lewis.

Currently I think Fulcher (Lima) is the only kid we recruited out of HS that played in Ohio. Hell, I think Turner might be the only kid we have from Michigan. Curtis & O'Neal are also Ohio kids, but via transfer.

This is clearly a Huger recruiting strategy that is a SHARP contrast from all of our previous coaches. I would never ask somebody to emulate the Orr recruiting methods, because clearly he didn't recruit hardly anybody worth a damn, but going back Dakich's teams and [from what I recall] Larranaga's teams were all heavily invested in Ohio. It is tough to really complain too much about Huger's recruiting, he's brought in more talent than we've seen in the past 15 years, but it is a definite difference in philosophy. I do think it's probably fueled by having a larger recruiting budget so casting a wider net to find talent, but I think in casting that net we're probably missing the fish that are right in our own state. We certainly seem to be less invested in Ohio talent than pretty much every other Ohio MAC school.

I'd guess like most in here, we don't give a damn how much is being spent on recruiting IF the result is a MAC title and a trip to the NCAA tournament. Yes, BG has more money to spend, but the fact that they've recruited Ohio so poorly AND not yet won a title ending that ridiculous multi-decade streak of not getting into the NCAA, are two reasons why keeping Huger is a mistake. Most of us didn't want him extended, but here we are. As long as that man is on the bench, this horrific streak will continue. He simply is not a good coach, and he isn't using a solid recruiting strategy to get talent that can overcome his shortcomings as a coach.