Jarret Doege transferring yet again

[roguewarrior]

Rogue...hearing anything on Orth looking better than McDonald this Fall?

He’s not ready now (learning offense) but ceiling is higher for next year…. Bigger arm, better motion.

[kdog27]

Why do we run such a complicated offense. Struggling to seen any benefits or future benefits from it.

[mbenecke]

Why do we run such a complicated offense. Struggling to seen any benefits or future benefits from it.

Our scheme is old school, but complicated schemes seem to be taking over the college game recently. Lots of NFL guys (Ryan Day in Columbus, for one) are implementing things they learned at the highest level, and that obviously takes time to understand and then execute on the field. Loeffler isn't alone in having a complicated scheme that takes time to learn.

[hammb]

Why do we run such a complicated offense. Struggling to seen any benefits or future benefits from it.

Our scheme is old school, but complicated schemes seem to be taking over the college game recently. Lots of NFL guys (Ryan Day in Columbus, for one) are implementing things they learned at the highest level, and that obviously takes time to understand and then execute on the field. Loeffler isn't alone in having a complicated scheme that takes time to learn.

The offenses that guys like Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley run aren't actually complicated at all. And NFL offenses are also getting simpler as well. Gone are the days of having your entire team in a practice setting for session after session of full contact full team drills. You no longer have the opportunity to have every single player master every single step of every single play. Instead these good offensive coaches (and NFL coaches like Shanahan, et al) are focusing on concepts. They teach very basic passing concepts that create route combos that put defenders in conflict. The reads on the QB side are far simpler as you are keying on specific defenders and going with the ball where the defender in conflict made a decision.

They are then compounding these relatively simple pass concepts by getting their QB consistently on the move (need a QB that can throw on the move). They're adding a lot of play action, again putting defenders in conflict and allowing an easy read for the QB. If LB bites, throw A, if LB doesn't bite, throw B, etc... Throws are higher percentage throws and reads are easier. Within that nearly every play doubles down by creating space for the best athletes so when they do catch the ball they can explode for big plays.

In the end they're all largely predicated on putting playmakers in the right spots and making things as easy as possible for the QBs.

Loeffler's offense is the old school football making every play a 37 step dance. The interior OL has to read the defensive alignment and make holes. The QB is asked to drop back and read the entire field. We don't put defenders in conflict because we play enough TEs that we never force teams out of their base defensive personnel. We rarely find ways to put our best guys in space because defenses can commit all of their DBs to our fewer WRs on the field.

Loeffler's offense is a coelacanth. Dinosaur offenses like Urban's BG spread would look advanced by comparison.

[hammb]

Why do we run such a complicated offense. Struggling to seen any benefits or future benefits from it.

Old school bad coach hubris. Loeffler knows nothing about football except what he was fed 25 years ago at Michigan. He's the old school type of coach that believes the way he learned that worked 25 years ago is what will still work if the players merely execute it better. Or he goes out and finds new players that will execute it better. Never mind the fact that he's basically never coached a good offense, he continues to lean on this system that has basically worked nowhere in the last 2 decades because he's simply not a good enough coach to evolve.

[jpfalcon09]

Why do we run such a complicated offense. Struggling to seen any benefits or future benefits from it.

Our scheme is old school, but complicated schemes seem to be taking over the college game recently. Lots of NFL guys (Ryan Day in Columbus, for one) are implementing things they learned at the highest level, and that obviously takes time to understand and then execute on the field. Loeffler isn't alone in having a complicated scheme that takes time to learn.

The offenses that guys like Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley run aren't actually complicated at all. And NFL offenses are also getting simpler as well. Gone are the days of having your entire team in a practice setting for session after session of full contact full team drills. You no longer have the opportunity to have every single player master every single step of every single play. Instead these good offensive coaches (and NFL coaches like Shanahan, et al) are focusing on concepts. They teach very basic passing concepts that create route combos that put defenders in conflict. The reads on the QB side are far simpler as you are keying on specific defenders and going with the ball where the defender in conflict made a decision.

They are then compounding these relatively simple pass concepts by getting their QB consistently on the move (need a QB that can throw on the move). They're adding a lot of play action, again putting defenders in conflict and allowing an easy read for the QB. If LB bites, throw A, if LB doesn't bite, throw B, etc... Throws are higher percentage throws and reads are easier. Within that nearly every play doubles down by creating space for the best athletes so when they do catch the ball they can explode for big plays.

Loeffler's offense is the old school football making every play a 37 step dance. The interior OL has to read the defensive alignment and make holes. The QB is asked to drop back and read the entire field. We don't put defenders in conflict because we play enough TEs that we never force teams out of their base defensive personnel. We rarely find ways to put our best guys in space because defenses can commit all of their DBs to our fewer WRs on the field.

Loeffler's offense is a coelacanth. Dinosaur offenses like Urban's BG spread would look advanced by comparison.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

[roguewarrior]

It’s also counterintuitive to become a portal hoe ; and then run a scheme that takes most kids several seasons to master to their liking…..

[kdog27]

I really want to be pleasantly surprised by the offense but there are so many reasons to think it’s going be drop back and pray again.

[Flipper]

Why was he hired in the first place? He had little success as an OC...zero experience as a HC. His system is dated nd takes awhile to learn and the plays take awhile to develop, assuming you have the QB and OL to make it work.

[jpfalcon09]

Why was he hired in the first place? He had little success as an OC...zero experience as a HC. His system is dated nd takes awhile to learn and the plays take awhile to develop, assuming you have the QB and OL to make it work.

1. Ohio guy. Previous coach was from Texas. Probably pressure to bring in someone with ties to the state and the region at large.
2. Clawson spiel, going to build it right, etc. etc.
3. Kit Hughes influence? Loeffler was at BC. Kit had Boston area connections. Remember that Scot's name was never floated around by the media as a possible target/candidate.
4. Connections? Jinks staff was wholly inexperienced. Loeffler at the very least knew a ton of people since he bounced around a lot.

We never got a clear answer outside of the comments that were made at his press conference after he was hired.

[hammb]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

Nice article find, and certainly has a lot of good talk about how Loeffler's offense is ready to roll in his 3rd year at VaTech with the right QB to run his system, etc.

However, it is an article from early September when they were really happy to only lose to Ohio State by 2 TDs. Look at how that offense played out with supposedly having the savvy vet QB capable of running his offense.

Finished 96th of 128 D1A teams in scoring
Brewer completed 59% of his passes for 2900 yds, only 6.1ypa and 15INTs to 18TDs

Even when he has the QB and tools he supposedly needs...the offense sucks.

And maybe you're right. Maybe it's not so much that it's complicated, but that it relies heavily on execution. Execution, in this case, meaning you need your guys to beat their guys. Rather than putting guys in position to succeed by scheming them open and making things easy.

[jpfalcon09]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

Nice article find, and certainly has a lot of good talk about how Loeffler's offense is ready to roll in his 3rd year at VaTech with the right QB to run his system, etc.

However, it is an article from early September when they were really happy to only lose to Ohio State by 2 TDs. Look at how that offense played out with supposedly having the savvy vet QB capable of running his offense.

Finished 96th of 128 D1A teams in scoring
Brewer completed 59% of his passes for 2900 yds, only 6.1ypa and 15INTs to 18TDs

Even when he has the QB and tools he supposedly needs...the offense sucks.

And maybe you're right. Maybe it's not so much that it's complicated, but that it relies heavily on execution. Execution, in this case, meaning you need your guys to beat their guys. Rather than putting guys in position to succeed by scheming them open and making things easy.

Yeah that season turned out just like the others for Scot. Included the infamous 0-0 regulation game with Wake Forest. I agree that it seems very matchup based and thus can be easy to defend if you can't leverage those matchups in your favor. There's nothing the scheme really does to take advantage of deception or put guys in situations where easy plays can be made, as you mentioned prior.

[hammb]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

Nice article find, and certainly has a lot of good talk about how Loeffler's offense is ready to roll in his 3rd year at VaTech with the right QB to run his system, etc.

However, it is an article from early September when they were really happy to only lose to Ohio State by 2 TDs. Look at how that offense played out with supposedly having the savvy vet QB capable of running his offense.

Finished 96th of 128 D1A teams in scoring
Brewer completed 59% of his passes for 2900 yds, only 6.1ypa and 15INTs to 18TDs

Even when he has the QB and tools he supposedly needs...the offense sucks.

And maybe you're right. Maybe it's not so much that it's complicated, but that it relies heavily on execution. Execution, in this case, meaning you need your guys to beat their guys. Rather than putting guys in position to succeed by scheming them open and making things easy.

Yeah that season turned out just like the others for Scot. Included the infamous 0-0 regulation game with Wake Forest. I agree that it seems very matchup based and thus can be easy to defend if you can't leverage those matchups in your favor. There's nothing the scheme really does to take advantage of deception or put guys in situations where easy plays can be made, as you mentioned prior.

That is a summation with my issues with our scheme, and my issues with our coach. The entire thing is predicated on execution and learning to be better than your opponent. That's probably fine if your Michigan and can out talent 9 of 12 teams on your schedule. But as we're seeing with some of these other coaches (hell even Saban has really started to embrace it), it's a fool's game to simply try and be better than your opposition.

Modern schemes make playing defense (at least by the current rules) nearly impossible. Every play should be putting at least one defender in a conflict that they simply cannot win. Execution becomes not about "beating your man" as much as it does reading the conflict defender, accurately throwing, and catching the ball...all things that are far easier than "beating your man" who may simply be a better/stronger/faster player.

6 teams in the MAC averaged > 30ppg last year. Loeffler has only accomplished that feat 3 times in his OC /HC career, and each time it was on the backs of 1000+ yard rushers. Looking at his history our only chance at success this season (or anytime under him) is if our RBs are going to prove capable of carrying a much larger load than we've ever seen them take on. I like our RB talent, but I don't know if Stewart or anybody else, is ready to be a true bell cow RB.

[jpfalcon09]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

Nice article find, and certainly has a lot of good talk about how Loeffler's offense is ready to roll in his 3rd year at VaTech with the right QB to run his system, etc.

However, it is an article from early September when they were really happy to only lose to Ohio State by 2 TDs. Look at how that offense played out with supposedly having the savvy vet QB capable of running his offense.

Finished 96th of 128 D1A teams in scoring
Brewer completed 59% of his passes for 2900 yds, only 6.1ypa and 15INTs to 18TDs

Even when he has the QB and tools he supposedly needs...the offense sucks.

And maybe you're right. Maybe it's not so much that it's complicated, but that it relies heavily on execution. Execution, in this case, meaning you need your guys to beat their guys. Rather than putting guys in position to succeed by scheming them open and making things easy.

Yeah that season turned out just like the others for Scot. Included the infamous 0-0 regulation game with Wake Forest. I agree that it seems very matchup based and thus can be easy to defend if you can't leverage those matchups in your favor. There's nothing the scheme really does to take advantage of deception or put guys in situations where easy plays can be made, as you mentioned prior.

That is a summation with my issues with our scheme, and my issues with our coach. The entire thing is predicated on execution and learning to be better than your opponent. That's probably fine if your Michigan and can out talent 9 of 12 teams on your schedule. But as we're seeing with some of these other coaches (hell even Saban has really started to embrace it), it's a fool's game to simply try and be better than your opposition.

Modern schemes make playing defense (at least by the current rules) nearly impossible. Every play should be putting at least one defender in a conflict that they simply cannot win. Execution becomes not about "beating your man" as much as it does reading the conflict defender, accurately throwing, and catching the ball...all things that are far easier than "beating your man" who may simply be a better/stronger/faster player.

6 teams in the MAC averaged > 30ppg last year. Loeffler has only accomplished that feat 3 times in his OC /HC career, and each time it was on the backs of 1000+ yard rushers. Looking at his history our only chance at success this season (or anytime under him) is if our RBs are going to prove capable of carrying a much larger load than we've ever seen them take on. I like our RB talent, but I don't know if Stewart or anybody else, is ready to be a true bell cow RB.

Too much depth at RB for one single guy to carry the mail. Stewart seems to continually to be battling injury issues as well. Patterson, Johnson, Keith, and Mosley are all going to get their reps. I had mentioned in another post that the only way the offense is successful this season is if they can run the ball effectively. It's cliche, but McDonald is simply not the guy you want chucking the ball around 45-50 times a game.

[roguewarrior]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... t-loeffler

This old article highlights well what Loeffler's system can do with the right personnel and skill makeup. Maybe that changes this year with Hilaire at the Y and CJ Lewis at the X or Z. Sims is a good hybrid H-back/TE and you have some RBs who can get out in space in the pass game. But he's been square peg, round holing it at BG due to a poor OL and average at best QBs. I don't think his scheme is that complicated, it simply comes down to execution but when the aforementioned positions aren't good, it's bound to fail.

Here is the condensed version of that game too. I think it's worth a watch to see how 2014 VT compares to present day BG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWCFXVu7E

Nice article find, and certainly has a lot of good talk about how Loeffler's offense is ready to roll in his 3rd year at VaTech with the right QB to run his system, etc.

However, it is an article from early September when they were really happy to only lose to Ohio State by 2 TDs. Look at how that offense played out with supposedly having the savvy vet QB capable of running his offense.

Finished 96th of 128 D1A teams in scoring
Brewer completed 59% of his passes for 2900 yds, only 6.1ypa and 15INTs to 18TDs

Even when he has the QB and tools he supposedly needs...the offense sucks.

And maybe you're right. Maybe it's not so much that it's complicated, but that it relies heavily on execution. Execution, in this case, meaning you need your guys to beat their guys. Rather than putting guys in position to succeed by scheming them open and making things easy.

Yeah that season turned out just like the others for Scot. Included the infamous 0-0 regulation game with Wake Forest. I agree that it seems very matchup based and thus can be easy to defend if you can't leverage those matchups in your favor. There's nothing the scheme really does to take advantage of deception or put guys in situations where easy plays can be made, as you mentioned prior.

That is a summation with my issues with our scheme, and my issues with our coach. The entire thing is predicated on execution and learning to be better than your opponent. That's probably fine if your Michigan and can out talent 9 of 12 teams on your schedule. But as we're seeing with some of these other coaches (hell even Saban has really started to embrace it), it's a fool's game to simply try and be better than your opposition.

Modern schemes make playing defense (at least by the current rules) nearly impossible. Every play should be putting at least one defender in a conflict that they simply cannot win. Execution becomes not about "beating your man" as much as it does reading the conflict defender, accurately throwing, and catching the ball...all things that are far easier than "beating your man" who may simply be a better/stronger/faster player.

6 teams in the MAC averaged > 30ppg last year. Loeffler has only accomplished that feat 3 times in his OC /HC career, and each time it was on the backs of 1000+ yard rushers. Looking at his history our only chance at success this season (or anytime under him) is if our RBs are going to prove capable of carrying a much larger load than we've ever seen them take on. I like our RB talent, but I don't know if Stewart or anybody else, is ready to be a true bell cow RB.

Too much depth at RB for one single guy to carry the mail. Stewart seems to continually to be battling injury issues as well. Patterson, Johnson, Keith, and Mosley are all going to get their reps. I had mentioned in another post that the only way the offense is successful this season is if they can run the ball effectively. It's cliche, but McDonald is simply not the guy you want chucking the ball around 45-50 times a game.

There will be no pounding of the ball. RB’s line up in the slot, at TE, at WR. It is part of the we are smarter than you and will out fox you offense.