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golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:59 am

PGY Tiercel wrote:Do you also feel that removing a feeding tube and life support from someone is wrong. That is deciding their fate? but isn't putting them on that life support and feeding tube also making a decision for them. For with out they would die, why do we have to right to keep people alive but not to let them die or put them to death.

I do feel it's wrong because that person has (in most cases) no way to tell them to take the tube out or not. They shouldn't want to though because the person that takes the tube out is commiting euthanasia. The whole death penalty and topics similar to it are very complicated, we may feel that the tube shouldn't be taken out but we want the death penalty or vice versa. That's why God is so amazing, he gave us the ability to argue, agree, discuss and use our brains.

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:14 am

Don't bring god into this. you have no way to prove to me that he exists. Taking a tube out is not euthanasia, because with out that support they would not be alive anyways, and if they do survive with out it, then there may be reason to believe they can be treated.. Injecting someone with an agent may be euthanasia, but with holding treatment is no different than being in a situation where treatment would not be available. You based your argument on not making decisions for others in the death penalty, yet suddenly it is ok in other situations. Many situations in life require the same decision or thought process to occur, most people are just to dumb to realize the contradictions that exist in their lives

1987alum · Post by **1987alum** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:02 am

PGY Tiercel wrote:Don't bring god into this. you have no way to prove to me that he exists.

And you have no way to prove that he doesn't exist. Hence, the beauty of faith.

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:24 am

1987alum wrote:
PGY Tiercel wrote:Don't bring god into this. you have no way to prove to me that he exists.
And you have no way to prove that he doesn't exist. Hence, the beauty of faith.

You're right, I can't.

UK Peregrine · Post by **UK Peregrine** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:27 am

1987alum wrote:
PGY Tiercel wrote:Don't bring god into this. you have no way to prove to me that he exists.
And you have no way to prove that he doesn't exist. Hence, the beauty of faith.

I kind of think that was his point in an odd way. It looks like he's going for a rational discussion and when people start to bring faith into a discussion, it tends to stop all rational discussion. Because as you pointed out, you cannot argue rationally either way per the existence or absence of God. Faith is something accepted to to be true, kind of hard to argue with that either way.

Jacobs4Heisman · Post by **Jacobs4Heisman** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:10 pm

every time I try to tell my mom that during a political discission -- she goes berserk. I'm still trying to figure out how this got into the administration/classes/memories forum. Oh yeah, that's right -- whenever golfer enters a thread, logic magically disappears; Kind of like lucky charms around me....

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:22 pm

PGY open a Bible, you'd be amazed how much you'll learn. Jesus died for our sins and I really truly believe that....so if He gave us life, why should we take lives?

goofyeuph · Post by **goofyeuph** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:45 pm

golfertk14 wrote:PGY open a Bible, you'd be amazed how much you'll learn. Jesus died for our sins and I really truly believe that....so if He gave us life, why should we take lives?

I just wanted to try and point out a slight flaw in your last argument. I know my religion and bible are a little rusty, but isn't Jesus the son of God? While yes he died for us, isn't it the Father who actually gave us life?

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:48 pm

of course but He sent His son to die for us. No one can enter the Kingdon of Heaven except throught the Father.

BGDrew · Post by **BGDrew** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:32 pm

golfertk14 wrote:PGY open a Bible, you'd be amazed how much you'll learn. Jesus died for our sins and I really truly believe that....so if He gave us life, why should we take lives?

Wait, wait, wait, you said you are in favor of the death penalty. Isn't that a sin?

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:09 pm

BGDrew wrote:
golfertk14 wrote:PGY open a Bible, you'd be amazed how much you'll learn. Jesus died for our sins and I really truly believe that....so if He gave us life, why should we take lives?
Wait, wait, wait, you said you are in favor of the death penalty. Isn't that a sin?

No, actually he is against it.
Golfer, don't start with the open the bible crap, I have learned more then you would know, and have had probably a very big faith. You are what 17, enter life and think on your own. Actually try to see if what the bible says makes sense. I have done this. I will tell you this, while I can't say I don't believe, I can say that I have seen enough, read enough, and THOUGHT enough that it doesn't all pan out for it. Yes, jesus may have died for our sins, and gave us life (after death), I believe we have every right to administer punishment and to end pain and suffering. You probably haven't watched friends make a decision to pull a breathing tube from their 4mo baby. I have, It was the right decision. I have seen parents who have done everything medically possible to keep their children alive for their own selfish reasons. Children with no muscle ability, can't breath on their own, can't eat and whats worse, they lack the ability to even blink for communication. How would you like to be a child with no means to communicate and in pain, but mentally fairly normal. Not me, not my children (I have 3).
Second think about what it means if one does not except christ in your religion. You have been created for eternal punishment. Sounds like a good plan to me. Free will argument doesn't work when you are punished for that free will.

UK Peregrine · Post by **UK Peregrine** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:20 pm

It's like talking to a wall fellas. A very dense wall.

BTW, did you know Dr. James Beckett, the founder of Beckett publications that do the "price guides," was a professor at BGSU!

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:38 pm

Actually I think were talking to this

transfer2BGSU · Post by **transfer2BGSU** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:09 pm

Where in the Bible does it say men will get to Heaven thirty minutes before women do?

Revelations 8:1
"And in Heaven there was half an hour of silence"

PGY Tiercel · Post by **PGY Tiercel** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:05 pm

That half hour would be heaven

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Biblical Trivia