Worst shooting team

[OSUFALCON]

Is this the worst shooting BGSU team in recent history? Simply awful, If been following Falcon basketball since 1976 and I can’t remember a worst shooting team.

[hammb]

Orr put out some really bad offensive teams with horrendous guard play, but this group has to be up there. Especially when you consider they can get wide open 3s at will and just not shoot them. Give me the days of them shooting them and being a pathetic 7-33 versus this nonsense of not even trying them.

Simon has to get on them, they can't play this system and refuse to take (and make) 3s. I know Hill isn't a great jump shooter, but if he's not going to shoot on the perimeter he at least has to take some of the mid ranges. I want Greer & Humphrey on the floor for more minutes and I'm telling them to shoot every time they touch the ball right now.

The unwillingness to take 3s is worse than the inability to make them. It's destroying Agee and Hill's ability to dominate inside.

[Hammer]

Orr put out some really bad offensive teams with horrendous guard play, but this group has to be up there. Especially when you consider they can get wide open 3s at will and just not shoot them. Give me the days of them shooting them and being a pathetic 7-33 versus this nonsense of not even trying them.

Simon has to get on them, they can't play this system and refuse to take (and make) 3s. I know Hill isn't a great jump shooter, but if he's not going to shoot on the perimeter he at least has to take some of the mid ranges. I want Greer & Humphrey on the floor for more minutes and I'm telling them to shoot every time they touch the ball right now.

The unwillingness to take 3s is worse than the inability to make them. It's destroying Agee and Hill's ability to dominate inside.

200% agree

[hammb]

I'll put this here since it's relevant to the conversation and there are less than 15 people that actually post here anymore, so why start a new thread.

To me the CMU 7-33 game was a clear turning point on the way this team was going to try playing basketball. Yes, losing that one in 2OT sucked when we had chances to put it away in regulation and 1OT. Yes, it "feels" like you're taking too many 3s when you shoot 33 of them and only make 7. Buuuuuuutttt...

In the games since that performance we've become a dumpster fire on offense. And keep in mind these averages include the UT game where we played out of our minds in every aspect except 3p shooting, and the Buffalo game where you could say the same. All stats ignore OOC play, these are MAC games only.

Prior to, and including that CMU game we averaged 80 ppg. We were shooting 44% as a team, but only 32% from 3p. We attempted 62 fg per game, just over 22 of them from 3p.

Since that CMU game our scoring output has dropped to 68ppg while actually taking more shots 63 fga per game. What has gone down though is 3pa are down to 18 per game. In taking more shots we're taking far more 2pa. That should help shooting, right? WRONG. Since we stopped attempting 3s the percentage has gone down from 32% to 21%, and overall FG % has gone from 44% to 39%.

Defensively our raw stats are pretty similar, but opponent shooting percentages are also down, so we're getting more stops and still not turning them into easy offense.

Looking at more advanced stats (which are tougher to truly calculate), our pace of play isn't greatly different (although slightly lower when you consider the UB game is such an outlier). But our ORtg & DRtg are down big time. From both ratings being near 109 to now 95.

I do find it interesting that our ability to score has fallen off a cliff as we've started preventing opponents from scoring. I'm not sure what that says, but still, as has been the trend all year, our opponents are shooting much better percentages than we are. One potential thing is simply the way games have been officiated...we're taking and allowing fewer FTs these days than earlier in the year, so maybe some of this shift is attributable to MAC refs "swallowing the whistle" and letting the games get mucky.

Clearly we are a MUCH worse team playing these games in the 60s than we were playing in the 70s & 80s. Hugers teams always had the late season losses mount, but I don't recall a team changing it's shot selection so crazily as the season went on. We simply must get back to attempting more 3s. Our early MAC season percentage of 32% isn't good, but our 3 point shooting alone accounts for 10 full points in our offensive decline... (22 * 32% vs 18 * 21%)

They've got 2 weeks to figure this out, but this team is going nowhere playing these games in the 60s and refusing to shoot deep.

[Flipper]

I dont like modern hoops as much as the older style...so much jacking around on the perimeter looking for threes... It's not as exciting for me as the old days when movement and attacking the basket was more prevalent

[hammb]

I dont like modern hoops as much as the older style...so much jacking around on the perimeter looking for threes... It's not as exciting for me as the old days when movement and attacking the basket was more prevalent

I don't entirely disagree, but the analytics are pretty clear that an open 3p look is superior to any mid-range shot or a contested rim look. And if others are going to be hunting 3s (and making them) I think it's a pretty tough row to hoe in attempting to play an older style offense based entirely on movement/rim attacking.


We're in the worst of both world right now where the offense is predicated on the arc being a key part of it, and we're passing those up in favor of contested shots at the rim. You'll never see an easier 9 block night for a team than last night. On almost all of those blocks if one guy didn't swat it, another quite likely would have. There was ZERO room to get shots on the glass/rim in close, yet we kept running our heads into that brick wall.

[Flipper]

Oh yeah...the math dictates taking the 3 when it's there...I just hate that style of play. It's boring. But I grew up watching Doc and Gervin attack the rim

[fanatic13]

It's hard to believe we've been worse at shooting recently. Over the last 5 games we might be the worst 3 point shooting team in the country and we're struggling to get more than 60 points. It looks like the whole team is frustrated and lacking confidence right now. I was hoping the toledo win could spark but that wasn't the case.

I agree with the point we have to keep shooting to make the defense respect the threat which is why I loved how Humphrey played last night. He wasn't making the shots but he proved he can earlier in the season and didn't hesitate. Thomas is probably the only player that shoots more than I like.

Defense is really encouraging and is a testament to Simon and the culture. It's easy to let offensive struggles carry over to that side of the ball yet we raised the level. If we continue to play defense like that it really raises the ceiling of this team's potential. 4 straight opponents under 70

[mbenecke]

Without an uncharacteristic shooting performance, our realistic ceiling is probably losing a tough game on Thursday in Cleveland. I accepted that a few weeks ago when we started spinning our tires.

This feels very different from a Huger February, though. Those were due to lack of effort and just kinda packing it in for the year. This feels like we just have a... talent/skill (?) deficiency on the roster that we cannot easily overcome. But these guys are determined and still playing hard. They're going to continue to battle, and even when they aren't shooting well, their effort will give us a chance late in games.

Still feeling very positive about Simon being successful here. I mean, it's pretty incredible that this team got to 17 wins with this big of a shooting issue. It's something that they can develop, and something that can be fixed with some roster management/construction over time. Love these guys, glad that they continue to fight, hoping they can get hot in March.

[maskedopining]

The unwillingness to take 3s is worse than the inability to make them. It's destroying Agee and Hill's ability to dominate inside.

You are on the money here hammb. This is the John Beilen Theory that has been proven by many studies NBA Teams have commissioned. Basically, an increase points scored is more related to 3 pt attempts than 3 pt makes.

Beilen posited that if you kept placing the defense in a position in which they were rotating due to perimeter screens, basket cuts and ball movement, the defense is reacting too quickly to identify good shooter vs bad shooters so they will instinctually contest 3 pt attempts and spread themselves out. So you have to shoot them to force defensive rotations. The data has largely backed this up.

We HAVE to keep shooting 3’s. If they don’t, the only option is Hill and Agee moving into 3 defenders to get a shot off. Also, not shooting threes largely reduces are chances of getting hot and making a tournament run.

[hammb]

The unwillingness to take 3s is worse than the inability to make them. It's destroying Agee and Hill's ability to dominate inside.

You are on the money here hammb. This is the John Beilen Theory that has been proven by many studies NBA Teams have commissioned. Basically, an increase points scored is more related to 3 pt attempts than 3 pt makes.

Beilen posited that if you kept placing the defense in a position in which they were rotating due to perimeter screens, basket cuts and ball movement, the defense is reacting too quickly to identify good shooter vs bad shooters so they will instinctually contest 3 pt attempts and spread themselves out. So you have to shoot them to force defensive rotations. The data has largely backed this up.

We HAVE to keep shooting 3’s. If they don’t, the only option is Hill and Agee moving into 3 defenders to get a shot off. Also, not shooting threes largely reduces are chances of getting hot and making a tournament run.

And I've heard Simon say many times he wants his team to be attacking closeouts. Problem is they're now catching and attacking when the defense isn't closing out.

Shoot the damned ball. Especially Humphrey, Spurgin, Greer, and Phillip. I want all of them to be catching the ball and putting it up immediately. Same goes for Thomas if he's not dominating the ball (I don't like his shooting at all on the ball). Once you get in the rhythm of taking these threes, THEN you can use that to find a driving lane.

This team was doing so much well offensively early this season even though the 3p% wasn't good. Ever since that CMU game they've devolved into a mess, and the data shows that the shooting percentages, points, and offensive efficiency numbers have all plummeted since we've been more hesitant to let the deep balls fly.

[BleedOrange]

Too, it seems that Marcus Hill dominates the ball too much and takes to many of the shots, to the exclusion of Humphrey, Phillip, Edwards, etc. The other keys don't get in rhythm and develop confidence, and the other teams can key on Hill.