Incident at UT will not go away

bacn3 · Post by **bacn3** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:09 pm

dude some kid almost died this isn't a bg vs. ut thing this is a respect your fellow man thing you just don't beat up someone almost to death. I just hope that kid and his mom can get some closure on this thing cause it sounds kind of shady to me, i don't care if they are just students, ut football players or even if they were bg football players everyone that was directly or indirectly involved should be punished!!!! end of story!!!!!!!

BGSUfanatUT · Post by **BGSUfanatUT** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:09 pm

If I was in class this semester I may have been there. That was on my street I rent a house on. I lived next door to the football players for a year. I know them, I even like some of them, that doesnt mean a darn thing when something this serious is at hand man. This isn't about football or the BGSU-UT rivalry. So don't think we are trash talking these guys b/c we dont liek them or UT, we are sayign our opinions b/c we are upset at the actions being taken to resolve this. This is about what is the right thing to do when things like this happen.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:15 pm

TJRocket wrote:Two isolated players with minor offenses vs, what, 10 to 15, maybe even 20 players nearly killing another student.

So what was it? 10, 15, maybe 20? You sound like you were there. Why havent you contacted the TPD? Maybe because you werent there, neither was Harris. The police did there job, but thats still not enough for any of you.

Yes, you are correct. The police did there job to gather evidence and name, as suspects, those that are directly responsible (in their minds) for the incident that occurred. However, I think it is very low of Amstutz to make the police his only investigators. This has nothing to do with breaking the law. College football coaches are not just coaches. They go into these kids' living rooms and promise their parents that they'll not only make them better players, but better people as well. Part of that is discipline. I know damn well that if I were involved in this sort of thing it wouldn't matter if I were innocent or guilty to the police my dad would whoop my ass because I shouldn't have put myself in that position.

Original reports were that there were MANY football players that showed up. The exact number is irrelevant, just so long as you accept that it was greater than 2. I doubt very seriously that the "Many" label would've been applied for only 2 players showing up. Every one of them knew that they had no right to be there, and they were doing something stupid & potentially dangerous. It is the coach's job to discipline his players regardless of what happened in the eyes of the law. They had no business being there, and for that they should be punished.

I would feel the same way if it were my team. I'm a Buckeye fan and I advocate as much discipline as necessary when those hoodlums get into trouble. Same goes if it were to happen at BG. The fact is that if the coaches don't do something to show these kids that what they're doing is wrong it will continue. It will be a black eye on your program, and eventually the MAC. You already gave the entire conference one huge black eye for the incident at the Motor City Bowl. We're getting rid of the anus of our conference (Marshall) and it'd be nice if the rest of the conference can try to keep things a little cleaner. Is it so much to ask a coach to suspend kids a game? Hell, even a half of a game would be SOMETHING.

TJRocket · Post by **TJRocket** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:17 pm

bacn3 wrote:dude some kid almost died this isn't a bg vs. ut thing this is a respect your fellow man thing you just don't beat up someone almost to death. I just hope that kid and his mom can get some closure on this thing cause it sounds kind of shady to me, i don't care if they are just students, ut football players or even if they were bg football players everyone that was directly or indirectly involved should be punished!!!! end of story!!!!!!!

The player charged with feloniuos assault was KICKED OFF THE TEAM, the player charged with assault has been SUSPENDED, his status with the team has yet to be determined. What does it matter what position they played or what string they played on? The only ones obsessed about this is Harris the parents of the victims(I can understand that) and the posters on here.

BGSUfanatUT · Post by **BGSUfanatUT** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:21 pm

TJRocket wrote:
bacn3 wrote:dude some kid almost died this isn't a bg vs. ut thing this is a respect your fellow man thing you just don't beat up someone almost to death. I just hope that kid and his mom can get some closure on this thing cause it sounds kind of shady to me, i don't care if they are just students, ut football players or even if they were bg football players everyone that was directly or indirectly involved should be punished!!!! end of story!!!!!!!
The player charged with feloniuos assault was KICKED OFF THE TEAM, the player charged with assault has been SUSPENDED, his status with the team has yet to be determined. What does it matter what position they played or what string they played on? The only ones obsessed about this is Harris the parents of the victims(I can understand that) and the posters on here.

yes, im sure we are the only people on earth that care that some kids almsot got killed b/c they told some asshole to stop groping a girl at a party.

TJRocket · Post by **TJRocket** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:22 pm

Is it so much to ask a coach to suspend kids a game? Hell, even a half of a game would be SOMETHING.[/quote]

Like I said, show me how many games this young man was suspended for. http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... _archive=1

Check the first game of 01, see who had the kicking duties. Pot meet kettle.[/url]

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:24 pm

TJRocket wrote:Did Sahm and Suisham start the 2001 campaign? Also from what I read in the paper with regards to Carson the reason that was in the Blade was because he threatened to shoot a cop because she told him to turn down his radio.

Do you think he had gun right there with him in the car? Doesn't sound like much of a threat to me.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:26 pm

TJRocket wrote:Two isolated players with minor offenses vs, what, 10 to 15, maybe even 20 players nearly killing another student.

So what was it? 10, 15, maybe 20? You sound like you were there. Why havent you contacted the TPD? Maybe because you werent there, neither was Harris. The police did there job, but thats still not enough for any of you.

Nope, I wasn't there. Thank God. and neither were you TJ. But can you honestly tell me that you think there were only two players involved? That is a little niave, don't you think?

TJRocket · Post by **TJRocket** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:26 pm

Next time a cop gives you a ticket for speeding try that line out.

Then let us all know how it went.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:32 pm

TJRocket wrote:Is it so much to ask a coach to suspend kids a game? Hell, even a half of a game would be SOMETHING.

Like I said, show me how many games this young man was suspended for. http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... _archive=1

Check the first game of 01, see who had the kicking duties. Pot meet kettle.[/url][/quote]

I understand you bringing up this incident. but there is a HUGE difference between this and the UT thing. Suisham's incident was a spur of the moment, fighting for a girl incident. The UT incident was premeditated and was in retaliation for the playere being asked to leave a party for groping the females. Can you see the difference?

Schadenfreude · Post by **Schadenfreude** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:46 pm

TJRocket wrote:I dont think any of you on here would be happy unless every starter on Toledo's roster was suspended. Not everyone can have squeaky clean program like BG(right Mr. Lieninger, Mr Carson). Lately, I have seen players from BG getting suspended for off the field incidents, good for you them, but you honest people on here know that wasn't always the way things were handled *cough (Urban Meyer). Lets also recognize the fact that very few incidents in BG ever make the paper.

He has a point, I think.

I get tired of the finger pointing at Toledo and Marshall. We have issues. Most every team does.

That's not to say that beating that guy to an inch of his life compares to anything that has gone on around here lately. That was a felony -- very serious stuff.

But TJ could point to a certain senior basketball player who committed armed robbery a few years back. Back in the mid-1990s, we had a receiver caught with steroids.

(And there is the Suisham thing, which I had completely forgotten about).

Stuff happens. We live in a glass house. I get tired of the moralizing.

I do disagree on his take on the papers. When BGSU kids go wrong, it does make the papers -- but often in really small type.

The Sentinel-Tribune does not tend to single out players who run afoul of the law for bigger stories because they are players.

The Blade operates differently.

Both approaches are reasonable. The papers have different missions.

BGSUfanatUT · Post by **BGSUfanatUT** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:52 pm

Yes, TJ makes a valid point, no one argues this. Things should have been then as well, its a shame nothing was. Schade is right too, its not just UT or Marshall or whomever, we all have problems. TJ, please do no think this is any kind of attack on UT, it isnt. This just happens to be going on now, and happens to be a really big deal. We would be acting the same way regardless of what team this happened too. If you read the thread about carson, you will find that we are all in favor of booting him asap. Crap like this has no place in any program and shouldnt be toteraled anywhere.

Post by **ZiggyZoomba** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:21 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:But TJ could point to a certain senior basketball player who committed armed robbery a few years back.

Huh? If you're talking about Trent Jackson, this happened after he was no longer a member of the BGSU basketball team. I don't even believe he was enrolled in classes at the time...

...not to detract from the rest of your post... :shrug:

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:24 pm

I don't think the incident itself is a reflection UT any more than the recent (albeit less serious) Carson and Leininger allegations are a reflection on BGSU.

I think the manner in which Amstutz has handled the situation is a reflection on the football program. No one at the University, including Amstutz, has denied that there were more two players there. Coach Amstutz is, in effect, saying "I'm only going to punish the kids who got caught by the police even though I know more players were involved". If you want to know why the perception that the UT football program has a discipline problem is growing, you need only look at the manner in which your coach has consistently shirked his responsibility to enforce a sensible set of rules.

If a similar event had occured here, I would hope our coach and University adminsitration would be far more aggressive in disciplining those involved.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:44 pm

Warthog wrote:
TJRocket wrote:Is it so much to ask a coach to suspend kids a game? Hell, even a half of a game would be SOMETHING.
Like I said, show me how many games this young man was suspended for. http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... _archive=1

Check the first game of 01, see who had the kicking duties. Pot meet kettle.[/url]

I understand you bringing up this incident. but there is a HUGE difference between this and the UT thing. Suisham's incident was a spur of the moment, fighting for a girl incident. The UT incident was premeditated and was in retaliation for the playere being asked to leave a party for groping the females. Can you see the difference?[/quote]

First of all. I have met and talked with Shaun's girlfriend. I would be willing to throw everyone in that hall out the window in order to be with her, but that's irrelevant.

Personally, I don't see THAT much of a difference. Yes, it was premeditated versus spur of the moment but its still wrong. I think Urban brushed it over too lightly, and I thought so at the time, although I wasn't on this message board at the time to share it.

We all have issues. I just think it is the obligation of a college coach to discipline his players, regardless of whether or not it results legal proceedings.