Cavs Message Board Rumors......

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:58 am

kslates wrote:
BleedOrange wrote:Yup. AD would score about as much as he does now. AD is a setup man. Z, LeBron, Allen, and Gooden will provide 75% of the scoring. AD actually would get more minutes and touches in Cleveland b/c he wouldn't platoon with Ridnour.
Everything I have read says that Cleveland wants Z gone this offseason.

I think it is time for him to move on and I hope they don't resign him. Not that he isn't a pretty decent center, because he is. I just don't think Z fits with Lebron. You have one of the most talented players in the history of the game that can push the ball up and down the court. Why would you want to saddle that guy with a center with bad feet and takes him three seconds just to get from one side of the lane to the other? I think Z fits in with a structured offense. Lebron fits with a "get it up and down the court" offense". Since this is LeBron's team, they need to build it around his strength's, not Z's.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Wed May 25, 2005 9:57 am

Warthog wrote:
kslates wrote:
BleedOrange wrote:Yup. AD would score about as much as he does now. AD is a setup man. Z, LeBron, Allen, and Gooden will provide 75% of the scoring. AD actually would get more minutes and touches in Cleveland b/c he wouldn't platoon with Ridnour.
Everything I have read says that Cleveland wants Z gone this offseason.
I think it is time for him to move on and I hope they don't resign him. Not that he isn't a pretty decent center, because he is. I just don't think Z fits with Lebron. You have one of the most talented players in the history of the game that can push the ball up and down the court. Why would you want to saddle that guy with a center with bad feet and takes him three seconds just to get from one side of the lane to the other? I think Z fits in with a structured offense. Lebron fits with a "get it up and down the court" offense". Since this is LeBron's team, they need to build it around his strength's, not Z's.

You definitely build your offense & team around LeBron, but I think that Z can still fit in that picture, if you don't pay him too much. He is not a max money type guy, but if you can get him for less then I don't see a reason to dump him. Last season if you take Z off that team they're really awful. If you take 'Bron off they're even worse. Z & 'Bron are the only two on that team right now that should be playing major minutes in the NBA. Verajao looks like he could develop into something pretty good though, as well.

I agree that Z doesn't fit the perfect mold of what you'd like to put around LeBron, but if you can keep him for a reasonable rate you just have to do it. They don't have any other talent around. You take Z away and the outside starts to get REAL clogged for LeBron.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:13 am

I think a sign and trade for Z is the best idea. That way he gets decent money, but the Cavs try to pick up players that are a better fit with LBJ. I would much rather see them use their cap space on Ray Allen, Joe Johnson, et al than on an aging, oft-injured, 7"4' white guy.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:10 am

If they use his salary space to pick up something worthwhile I wouldn't complain. That team needs serious help as LBJ is the only legit NBA starter on the roster (assuming Z is gone).

Ira Newble? -- too awful
Drew Gooden? -- too inconsistent
Jeff MacInnis? -- Too Jeff MacInnisy

Falconboy · Post by **Falconboy** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:29 pm

FalconAwesome wrote:They won't go small with a 6'4" point, a 6'5" SG, and a 6'8" manchild SF?

Ha, a 6'8 manchild SF! Thats hilarious!

Yeah, that linup is not small by any stretch of the imagination. Very good sized lineup by NBA standerds. If the Cavs can keep Z for less or pick up a pretty decenty athletic center somewhere to augment LBJ's style then that would be ideal.

Flipper · Post by **Flipper** » Wed May 25, 2005 3:19 pm

After seeing the $$$ Mehmet Okur got last year, I wouldn't totally bet against the Cavs waiving the max at Z. Okur's younger, but his ceiling isn't as high (IMHO) as the level Z's at now.

Sign and trade is probably the best bet...it certainly worked wonders for Detroit when Grant Hill wanted to go to Orlando (Pistons got Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins)

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:24 pm

Another reason I am not impressed with Drew Gooden:

"I've had to overcome a lot of diversity." -- Drew Gooden discussing his NBA career.

kslates · Post by **kslates** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:30 pm

Warthog wrote:Another reason I am not impressed with Drew Gooden:

"I've had to overcome a lot of diversity." -- Drew Gooden discussing his NBA career.

How about because he wears a Cleveland Jersey

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:40 pm

Warthog wrote:
kslates wrote:
BleedOrange wrote:Yup. AD would score about as much as he does now. AD is a setup man. Z, LeBron, Allen, and Gooden will provide 75% of the scoring. AD actually would get more minutes and touches in Cleveland b/c he wouldn't platoon with Ridnour.
Everything I have read says that Cleveland wants Z gone this offseason.
I think it is time for him to move on and I hope they don't resign him. Not that he isn't a pretty decent center, because he is. I just don't think Z fits with Lebron. You have one of the most talented players in the history of the game that can push the ball up and down the court. Why would you want to saddle that guy with a center with bad feet and takes him three seconds just to get from one side of the lane to the other? I think Z fits in with a structured offense. Lebron fits with a "get it up and down the court" offense". Since this is LeBron's team, they need to build it around his strength's, not Z's.

Warthog, if Z leaves, who's gonna take his place at center??

OptionQB · Post by **OptionQB** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:12 pm

While Ray Allen is the dream guy in FA for the Cavs, the more likely guy they are to land is Michael Redd. Redd is a big-time, shooter, lives in Columbus in the offseason and has stated before that he thinks LeBron is the next end-all/be-all guy in the NBA.

Getting a shooter is the first priority. Without a shooter, opposing teams will crowd LeBron and whatever post-prescence the Cavs do get.

I don't think Z is out of the realm of possibilities yet. I think with the FA $$ the Cavs will have (Z, McInnis, Dajuan Wagner and S.Williams) all come off the books July 1, pending the lock-out.

While the center position is still the most true indicator of playoff success in the NBA, getting a shooter has to be the Cavs #1 priority for a few reasons.

1. They do not have a draft pick AT ALL as of now.
2. Getting a shooter/#2 scorer takes heat off of LeBron.
3. Z made $14.6M this year

For those reasons and many others including the lack of a head coach and general manager right now, if I were the Cavs I would make a run at Michael Redd(a restricted FA, Milwaukee has the option to match) and then see if Z would take a pay cut. Z could be a great 3rd scoring option and still has, at some level, somewhere around 3 years left in the tank. I don't think signing Z is a high priority b/c of the FA market. There will be teams that will break the bank for Samuel Dalembert, Eddy Curry (depending the heart issues) and others . . . Meanwhile, Stromile Swift, a ridiculously athletic 6-9 guy with the wingspan of a 7-0 is an unrestricted FA out of Memphis. Unless, Jerry West is personally paying the luxury tax down in Memphis, Stromile is all but gone. Guys like Antonio Davis of Chicago can be had in a trade and only hits for one year on the salary cap. One way or another, the Cavs need to rid themselves of the Jim Paxson brainless contracts of Ira Newble and find a trading partner for Eric Snow's 56 year old legs and get youth and athleticism in the 1, 2 and 5 spots.

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:52 pm

golfertk14 wrote: Warthog, if Z leaves, who's gonna take his place at center??

Kevin Netter.

golfertk14 · Post by **golfertk14** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:51 am

Warthog wrote:
golfertk14 wrote: Warthog, if Z leaves, who's gonna take his place at center??
Kevin Netter.

Well obviously I'm in the minority of people who think Z should stay..

I'm of the belief that as soon as he signs with another team, he's gonna get a ring and Cleveland's gonna look like a laughing stock again. :rant:

Warthog · Post by **Warthog** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:33 am

Z will NOT be the difference in any team winning a ring or not. He is a nice role player, but not a difference maker.

BleedOrange · Post by **BleedOrange** » Thu May 26, 2005 11:27 pm

Warthog wrote:
golfertk14 wrote: Warthog, if Z leaves, who's gonna take his place at center??
Kevin Netter.

Mr. Warthog, the BIG problem with not signing Z is this: How on earth will the Cavs replace him? Z is an all-star calibre center, and if they let him go, they'll likely replace him with a journeyman player. You will not make a run in the East without front line prowess. (think Wallace and Shaq). And the real concern is this: if the Cavs aren't making championship runs within 3 years, LeBron may leave.

We need a tough, savvy veteran to add to the rotation. An Antonio Davis type would be a beautiful addition, if we don't expect him to be the 40 min low post player.