New Coaches' Poll (Sept 13)

BGSUCane · Post by **BGSUCane** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:51 pm

as a Canes fan here at BG, I don't understand you're reasoning that Miami should be moved down, we won, and showed we can play with one of the best teams in the nation.

Is Omar better than Brock? I don't think so...Is Omar better than Rix? Probably not better, but he might be smarter even as a soph. I think Omar would do alright if he was under center for the Canes, but can you imagine Brock in BG against some of the MAC secondaries? I think you see the comparison isn't really as close as we want to think...and this is coming from a big fan of BG and UM.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:18 pm

BGSUCane wrote:as a Canes fan here at BG, I don't understand you're reasoning that Miami should be moved down, we won, and showed we can play with one of the best teams in the nation.

Is Omar better than Brock? I don't think so...Is Omar better than Rix? Probably not better, but he might be smarter even as a soph. I think Omar would do alright if he was under center for the Canes, but can you imagine Brock in BG against some of the MAC secondaries? I think you see the comparison isn't really as close as we want to think...and this is coming from a big fan of BG and UM.

Brock Berlin is NOT a good QB. Not even close. He reminds me of John Navarre. He wins games because he's on a good team, but will also make sure that you don't win a championship while he's there. Not a fan of Miami, although I was rooting for them the other night, but if I were he would infuriate me.

Calling Turnoverasaurus Rix even CLOSE to Omar is ludicrous. He is one of the sole reasons why FSU has been down for a couple years. Bowden has toyed around with benching him for the past 3 years, but the rest of his QBs must be really bad.

That game was not a well played battle between two teams at all. It was a battle of two offenses that couldn't do squat against good, athletic defenses. Not necessarily because the defenses are GREAT, just that the offenses made mistake after mistake. Those mistakes you could make up for against a crap defense, but both teams had too good of athletes. The result was a boring, low-scoring game.

That said Antrell Rolle may be the best college player in the nation, regardless of position.

BGSUfanatUT · Post by **BGSUfanatUT** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:46 pm

BGSUCane wrote:as a Canes fan here at BG, I don't understand you're reasoning that Miami should be moved down, we won, and showed we can play with one of the best teams in the nation.

Is Omar better than Brock? I don't think so...Is Omar better than Rix? Probably not better, but he might be smarter even as a soph. I think Omar would do alright if he was under center for the Canes, but can you imagine Brock in BG against some of the MAC secondaries? I think you see the comparison isn't really as close as we want to think...and this is coming from a big fan of BG and UM.

None of us think they should drop, we jsut dont think they should have been that high in the polls to start with. As stated, preseason polls are dumb.

And hammb is right, brock is NOT a good QB. If you are saying there is a comparrison between him and Omar, its that of Omar being much better than Berlin. Hands down, The state of Florida is greatly lacking QB's now, none of them are very good.

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:26 pm

BGSUCane wrote:as a Canes fan here at BG, I don't understand you're reasoning that Miami should be moved down, we won, and showed we can play with one of the best teams in the nation.

Is Omar better than Brock? I don't think so...Is Omar better than Rix? Probably not better, but he might be smarter even as a soph. I think Omar would do alright if he was under center for the Canes, but can you imagine Brock in BG against some of the MAC secondaries? I think you see the comparison isn't really as close as we want to think...and this is coming from a big fan of BG and UM.

Both of those quarterbacks are a product of being surrounded by superior athletes. And even than they are not that good. Berlin through what 17 ints. and 9tds last year? That's awful. Omar is only a sophomore and neither of those two qb's could hold his jockstrap. I might even win a game or two if I was the qb at miami with all those all americans around me. Wait, forget that I'm better then Rix. Why don't you park in some more handicapped spots chris? Idiot

BGSUCane · Post by **BGSUCane** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:49 am

hammb wrote:
Brock Berlin is NOT a good QB. Not even close. He reminds me of John Navarre. He wins games because he's on a good team, but will also make sure that you don't win a championship while he's there. Not a fan of Miami, although I was rooting for them the other night, but if I were he would infuriate me.

They said the same thing about Dorsey when he was at Miami...he isn't good, he just has great talent around him. Brock does make some very stupid plays sometimes, but he can turn it on for a quarter and get us a Win, that's good enough for me.

Don't take this as bashing Omar, cuz I'm just as big of a BG fan as you guys...but Omar really isn't at the level of Berlin or even Rix right now. If you switch their spots, they can't compare to each other. Rix/Berlin would dominate in the MAC against weaker competition, and Omar. Omar did well against OU, so he deserves credit for that, but can he consistently do that against big-time schools each week? That's something nobody will know...

BGSUfanatUT · Post by **BGSUfanatUT** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:34 am

BGSUCane wrote:
hammb wrote:
Brock Berlin is NOT a good QB. Not even close. He reminds me of John Navarre. He wins games because he's on a good team, but will also make sure that you don't win a championship while he's there. Not a fan of Miami, although I was rooting for them the other night, but if I were he would infuriate me.

They said the same thing about Dorsey when he was at Miami...he isn't good, he just has great talent around him. Brock does make some very stupid plays sometimes, but he can turn it on for a quarter and get us a Win, that's good enough for me.

Don't take this as bashing Omar, cuz I'm just as big of a BG fan as you guys...but Omar really isn't at the level of Berlin or even Rix right now. If you switch their spots, they can't compare to each other. Rix/Berlin would dominate in the MAC against weaker competition, and Omar. Omar did well against OU, so he deserves credit for that, but can he consistently do that against big-time schools each week? That's something nobody will know...

Dorsey was a good QB. granted he had all-americans all around him too, btu he made the team play better. In my mind, he was the coach of tthat team as a senior, not thier primate faces coach(those ears!) Omar is up at the same level as brock and rix for sure. Omar can throw to open recievers, he can avoid a sack, and he can run. He makes good decisions, and his mechanics(most of the time) are FAR better than Rix'...I dont remember how Berlin looked, but odds are they arent anythign spectacular.

I was however impressed with the new Chris Rix. Did anyone else see the competitor he tried to be in that game? throwign multiple huge blocks for his guys. And unlike the Rix of old, when he got pressured, he didnt jsut curl up for the sack, he made an effort to evade it, sometimes succeding

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:59 am

BGSUCane wrote:
hammb wrote:
Brock Berlin is NOT a good QB. Not even close. He reminds me of John Navarre. He wins games because he's on a good team, but will also make sure that you don't win a championship while he's there. Not a fan of Miami, although I was rooting for them the other night, but if I were he would infuriate me.

They said the same thing about Dorsey when he was at Miami...he isn't good, he just has great talent around him. Brock does make some very stupid plays sometimes, but he can turn it on for a quarter and get us a Win, that's good enough for me.

Don't take this as bashing Omar, cuz I'm just as big of a BG fan as you guys...but Omar really isn't at the level of Berlin or even Rix right now. If you switch their spots, they can't compare to each other. Rix/Berlin would dominate in the MAC against weaker competition, and Omar. Omar did well against OU, so he deserves credit for that, but can he consistently do that against big-time schools each week? That's something nobody will know...

Nobody ever said Dorsey wasn't a good college QB. They said he wouldn't be a good NFL QB. That is because he doesn't have the arm strength to make certain throws in the NFL. As for college he was a great college QB. He did it all and got his team wins, just like OSU's Krenzel did.

However, look back at their play, you cannot compare Berlin to Dorsey. Dorsey protected the ball and got it open WRs. Berlin cannot do that. He had a negative TD:INT ratio last year, which is unheard of for anyone leading a national championship contender. His QB Rating was in in the neighborhood of 119 which is TERRIBLE for a college QB, and so far this year its about the same. By comparison, J5's last year was 143 or so, Omar's so far this year is 135, I think that Jason White's was in the neighborhood of 155-160 last year. Case in point look at Kellen Winslow. With Dorsey his SO year Kellen caught 57 passes for 726 yds & 8 TD. With Berlin he caught 60 for 605 yds & 1 TD. Did he get worse all of a sudden, and could no longer stretch a defense? I find that very hard to believe, and more likely his QB struggled to get him the ball, especially in the red zone. Of course there are other factors such as losing McGahee & Johnson, but the point is still there.

I don't want to get into this too much, because its a BG board, but you are clearly blinded to believe that QBs at a major BCS contender are better than their MAC counterparts. I don't believe that either one of those QBs would tear up the MAC like you suggest. Not on MAC teams, surrounded by MAC talent. Both of them have had chance after chance and they continue to struggle finding open men and then putting the ball in a position for their receivers to make plays. Sure, they're both big and have good arms. They just have yet to learn how to truly play the QB position. I don't necessarily believe that Omar is better right now than them, but I think he could be. I think J5 was certainly better than either of them. And don't bring up NFL draft status either, because that has more to do with having prototype size, etc. If Harris were 3 inches taller he would've gone in the top 4 rounds. Rix & Berlin are both prototype size guys and will likely get drafted, but I sure as heck wouldn't want either of them trying to lead my team to an undefeated season. With the talent on those teams all they are asked to do is not lose games, and every year they find a way to be responsible for at least one loss.

BGSUCane · Post by **BGSUCane** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:33 pm

Good points all around....Omar, to me, still has alot to prove. He's shown alot especially against Oklahoma's great defense. But maybe in December I can think about putting Omar on the same level as Berlin/Rix.

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:08 pm

BGSUCane wrote:Good points all around....Omar, to me, still has alot to prove. He's shown alot especially against Oklahoma's great defense. But maybe in December I can think about putting Omar on the same level as Berlin/Rix.

Omar, to me, still has a lot to prove as well; although he's impressed the hell out of me so far. I guess my contention is not that Omar is among the upper echelon of college QBs; my point is that neither Berlin nor Rix are among the upper echelon either.

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:30 pm

BGSUCane wrote:Good points all around....Omar, to me, still has alot to prove. He's shown alot especially against Oklahoma's great defense. But maybe in December I can think about putting Omar on the same level as Berlin/Rix.

I agree that Omar has much to prove but I would take Omar over those two anyday. BTW, what has Rix and Berlin proved? To me all I have ever seen from them is enough to get by. After watching that game last friday, I don't know how anyone could think these two guys are good qb's. They have both been around forever and they still stink it up rather than light it up

BGSUCane · Post by **BGSUCane** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:39 pm

Berlin has his good and bad moments....his bad times are REALLY bad, but he plays good most of the time....He's not a Leinart who's gonna put up big numbers every week, Brock does make big throws and does his part to get the Canes a win...

If I had to rank them, I'd say Brock, Omar, Rix...right now....Omar has big time upside, but right now, I'd have to take Brock. And if you think about it...Omar was stolen almost right out of the heart of Cane country, I wonder if any of the big 3 in Florida looked into OJ?

hammb · Post by **hammb** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:47 pm

BGSUCane wrote: And if you think about it...Omar was stolen almost right out of the heart of Cane country, I wonder if any of the big 3 in Florida looked into OJ?

This is all rumor and hearsay, but I cannot say that my memory is 100% accurate.

What I remember is that Omar was a hotshot Junior that all the big 3 were scouting and starting to look at fairly closely. Then he suffered an injury plagued Senior Season? I seem to recall reading that somewhere. Anyway, after that the only major school that was still calling him was Kansas State, until grade questions arose. They backed off him, but we did not. He came to a visit at BG and it was the coldest weather he had ever been in, but fell in love with our offense. That combined with other major schools backing off of him made him commit to BG.

In the end he's been healthy for a few years and had no problems qualifying right away either.

As I said, I don't know how much of this is true, as it was likely just hearsay & rumor when I heard it, but that's the story as I recall it.

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:06 pm

BGSUCane wrote:
Don't take this as bashing Omar, cuz I'm just as big of a BG fan as you guys...but Omar really isn't at the level of Berlin or even Rix right now. If you switch their spots, they can't compare to each other. Rix/Berlin would dominate in the MAC against weaker competition, and Omar. Omar did well against OU, so he deserves credit for that, but can he consistently do that against big-time schools each week? That's something nobody will know...

How do you know that they do not compare to each other? What proof do you have of that? I did a little stat digging. Here is Berlin's number's against "mac type" teams.
La Tech 14-28 203 2td 1int
Rutgers 6-14 86 2td 0int
Temple 16-26 187 2td 0int
ECU 14-24 190 1td 1int
Not awful numbers but definitely not putting up big numbers. In Omar's one game against competition greatly better than those four teams he had better numbers than any of those games. And for the season Berlin had 12ints and 17 tds, so it obvoius that he is pretty lousy against elite teams, if you take away the four games against cupcakes he has 5tds and 15 int. There is no such thing as a good qb that throws more ints then tds. Add to this Berlin is not a rushing threat and Omar is. Just because he plays for Miami does not mean he is better than everyone at a lesser school.

BGSUCane · Post by **BGSUCane** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:42 pm

Miami runs a hell of alot more than BG does though....Berlin would be my pick now, but Omar has 3 years to prove me wrong...

kdog27 · Post by **kdog27** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:45 pm

BGSUCane wrote:Miami runs a hell of alot more than BG does though....Berlin would be my pick now, but Omar has 3 years to prove me wrong...

I respect your opinion but find it hard to pick a qb who throws more interceptions then touchdowns. The numbers speak for themselves. So miami runs a lot more. Then why did he throw 17 picks? He gets the job done because obviously Miami is a good team but I am sure Larry Smoker would love to have numerous other qbs. Taking care of the ball is the qb's most important job.