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[transfer2BGSU]

Why are we even discussing OSU in the first place? Wasn't Crew Stadium the Columbus site mentioned?

Get your panties out of a bind.

[1987alum]

Good point, Transfer, although bound panties are a natural by-product of fan discussion boards.

[Tricky_Falcon]

Playing the MACC would also not be an indication that the MAC schools want to be like OSU..

I understand this, I was replying to Hammb's post. I know that playing at a venue doesn't mean we want to be like the team that plays there full time. But I'd rather see the MACC played at Crew Stadium than the shoe. And I really don't like the idea of the game being played at Crew Stadium.

I agree that the gap is closing, but I really don't think it pertains to this discussion. It's not like the MAC is on its knees begging someone to let it use a stadium.

Again, I was responding to Hammb's post where he was talking up osu and said that there was no way that any MAC team could have the great tradition of osu.

[Tricky_Falcon]

Why are we even discussing OSU in the first place? Wasn't Crew Stadium the Columbus site mentioned?

I agree.

[Schadenfreude]

If you see OSU as the enemy then you are fighting a war you cannot win. I see OSU as the Swiss.

I see OSU as Microsoft.

Rooting for OSU & BG are two different things and neither will ever be on the same level.

I have faith this isn't true.

I'd love BG to rise up and be on that level but it will not happen.

I have faith this isn't true.

That's not to say that BG couldn't rise up some year and beat OSU on the field some season, it coudl certainly happen. That's not the issue. OSU is on a different level of the college football landscape with his history & tradition. BG has a great history of its own, but it will never compete with OSU's.

I have faith this isn't true.

I don't see why everyone has to be so dead set that OSU is the enemy, that they cannot even open their eyes to see that playing the MACC game there would be the greatest thing that ever happened to MAC football.

I find it enormously insulting that anyone would suggest playing the MAC championship in Ohio Stadium should be regarded as some kind of honor.

Before I studied your post, I was going to offer something to this effect:

Ohio Stadium is just a big, conveninently-located stadium. Paul Brown Stadium, Cleveland Browns Stadium, Ohio Stadium, Nippert Stadium, Fawcett Stadium -- it doesn't matter to me where they play the title game as long as the site looks full on television. Maybe we start the thing at Crew Stadium and grow into Ohio Stadium.

And, sure, some of our kids probably originally wanted to play at Ohio State and weren't recruited to do so. For some of them, it would be nice to finish the regular season in Ohio Stadium.

On the other hand, the ESPN announcers would inevitably acknowledge that fact. In fact, they might even make it the lead in. "These kids weren't considered good enough to play for Ohio State, but now they are getting their chance to play in Ohio Stadium." And that would be absolutely intolerable for me.

So I'm not sure what I think, to be honest. I do think there'd be local interest. But it would be difficult for me.

But I've changed my mind Hammb. You've convinced me I was wrong to be so accepting of the idea.

Even if the MAC's television contract with ESPN contained a specific clause that barred any mention of what a supposed honor it would be to play in Ohio Stadium, I am now absolutely certain there would be thousands upon thousands of people running around this city blathering about what a supposed "honor" it is for MAC players to finish their season in Ohio Stadium.

The Dispatch's Bob Hunter would devote a annual column to the idea. All of the local television sports anchors would bring it up on game day. Scarlet-and-grey-clad fans would bring it up during casual conversation at halftime at the hotdog concession.

And all of it would be terribly insulting.

It wouldn't be worth it.

Put the game in Cincinnati or Cleveland. Keep it out of Columbus.

There is a difference between you and me, Hammb.

You believe Bowling Green will never play for a mythical national title.

I see it this way: Bowling Green is just further away from playing for a mythical national title than a certain other school in Columbus.

If Brigham Young, if Virginia Tech, why not us?

That's the way I see it.

We can get there. It's just going to take a lot of time.

[TG1996]

If Brigham Young, if Virginia Tech, why not us?

That's the way I see it.

We can get there. It's just going to take a lot of time.

WOOOOOO BOOOOOOYYYYYYY!!! Pull that tractor, Schad!!!

I agree that it would be awhile, but if this program stays on the growing pace its on, I see no reason why it shouldn't happen. Maybe not crack the title game for awhile, but to have that potential (and especially BCS potential) put in our hands to lose at the start of every season. By 2000, the media was gushing over Marshall and year in and year out they were the MAC's chance to "make it". In some eyes, they still are. BG has a solid foundation started, whats to say we don't "roll along" for a few years, put together some dominating 10-1, 9-2 (with close losses to "big boys") seasons, maybe drop a goose-egg in at some point, and become the darlings of the mid-majors?

Even among the biggest optimists here (Freak, I'm looking in your direction!! ), who would have thought the program would be where its at now 4 or 5 years ago? Hell, even with 2 or so minutes left at Northwestern in 2001, who thought we'd be looking at all this: major changes to the Doyt, including the proposed SAC (no matter how much of a reality that may be at this point), 30,000+ crowds, a hellified following to a bowl game WIN, and enough national pub to get at least a few heads turned our way 3 months before the season even kicks off!

All of that seems so redundant, but so so true. Seasons like last year seemed like an oasis in 2000, who knows what may come to be by 2009 or 2010?

[CapitalFalcon]

Ok...Here is the issue...BG has yet to prove that it is an outstanding PROGRAM (as was mentioned in a previous thread). I now love BG football...but I never gave it much thought when I was a student. Who wants to go to a game when you get beat almost everytime you are out on the field? Who wants to watch a team that gets beat by the Bulls?

It's true...It seems that we have a great foundation. But this season is a true test. Have we turned the corner to really step up this program? I hope so. We have a lot of preseason hype. #3 receiving corp. 4 years ago WHO would have EVER thought BG would be mentioned along side Michigan and Oklahoma??? Not me!

But this is a ridiculous discussion about hating OSU and that they are the enemy. WTF??? If that's the case, why aren't we going on and on about the Hurricanes, FSU, USC, etc. They are all part of "the system." You don't see LSU standing up and saying: "Hold everything! The BCS isn't fair to mid-majors." I believe that this post started about OSU fans talking about how they would go out and spend their coin to watch the MACC if it was located in Columbus. Come on guys! Their money spends just as well as ours!

The harsh truth is, big time college football takes cash. Schools like OSU are older, have at least twice the students and alumni as BG. Their students have to PAY to attend all games. And they sell out with almost 100,000 seats. We can't even fill our 35k seater with free admission to all students! OSU dominates Columbus...There is not that much rivalry from Otterbein or Capital. BG has to contend with Toledo, and there is not the population in Lucas and Wood counties that there is in Franklin.

That being said, I would LOVE for BG to rise and be to OSU what MSU is to Michigan! We have a ways to go. I don't know how you overcome the economics that are at play. I hope we can figure it out. But it all starts with wins. We have to keep winning because we don't have the luxury of a Notre Dame or OSU to have a few "down" seasons. ROLL ALONG!!!

[falcfan]

That being said, I would LOVE for BG to rise and be to OSU what MSU is to Michigan! We have a ways to go. I don't know how you overcome the economics that are at play. I hope we can figure it out. But it all starts with wins. We have to keep winning because we don't have the luxury of a Notre Dame or OSU to have a few "down" seasons. ROLL ALONG!!!

Preach it brotha!

[Falcon30]

I see it this way: Bowling Green is just further away from playing for a mythical national title than a certain other school in Columbus.

If Brigham Young, if Virginia Tech, why not us?

That's the way I see it.

We can get there. It's just going to take a lot of time.

It is difficult to do it for any team. However, what if Miami beat Iowa last year? The computers would have had them between 2 and 5 (except for the idiot NYTimes Computer) Imagine if they were the undefeated team last year. It would have produced quite a debate. If they were eligible for the BCS...

Imagine if BG went undefeated - beating the defending champ...

Go undefeated, have a really tough OOC schedule, beat a good MAC team in the Championship game handily, qualify for the BCS top 6...

It isn't that impossible to imagine. How many years has there been no undefeated BCS team?

WE can't have a one-loss National Champ, but an undefeated MAC team can compete for the "National Championship." I honestly believe Miami would have won the Big Ten last year. I believe they could have beaten ANY team in college football, including LSUSC or whoever "won" the title.

[hammb]

Again, I was responding to Hammb's post where he was talking up osu and said that there was no way that any MAC team could have the great tradition of osu.

By definition of the words "history" and "tradition" we will never reach that of OSU's. They have a HUGE head start in that regard. That was my point. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring the meaning of those words.

[Falcon30]

Again, I was responding to Hammb's post where he was talking up osu and said that there was no way that any MAC team could have the great tradition of osu.

By definition of the words "history" and "tradition" we will never reach that of OSU's. They have a HUGE head start in that regard. That was my point. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring the meaning of those words.

We'll never have the history and tradition of Army either.

[hammb]

I see OSU as Microsoft.

That is your prerogative.

Rooting for OSU & BG are two different things and neither will ever be on the same level.

I have faith this isn't true.

Then you better be prepared to someday leave the MAC. As long as BG is in the MAC this will never happen. The MAC will always be seen nationally as the Big 10's little brother, and national perception is as important as actual truth when it comes to this matter. More than that there are schools in the MAC that are not dedicated to any level of excellence. Those schools will always ensure that the MAC is not a powerful enough conference to gain national respect.

That's not to say that BG couldn't rise up some year and beat OSU on the field some season, it coudl certainly happen. That's not the issue. OSU is on a different level of the college football landscape with his history & tradition. BG has a great history of its own, but it will never compete with OSU's.

I have faith this isn't true.

You missed the point of that paragraph. I was merely stating that even though we could become better than them on the field history & tradition hold weight on the college football landscape. By definition of those words we cannot catch up with the Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio States of the world. They've been excelling at football for longer than we've been competing in the sport. That is undeniable fact.

I find it enormously insulting that anyone would suggest playing the MAC championship in Ohio Stadium should be regarded as some kind of honor.

When I said it would be the best thing to happen to the MAC I did not mean it'd be an honor to play it in that stadium. I really don't see it that way at all. Like 87 said I see it as a large, accomodating venue that is centrally located for the MAC.

But I've changed my mind Hammb. You've convinced me I was wrong to be so accepting of the idea.

Uhh...glad I could help?

Even if the MAC's television contract with ESPN contained a specific clause that barred any mention of what a supposed honor it would be to play in Ohio Stadium, I am now absolutely certain there would be thousands upon thousands of people running around this city blathering about what a supposed "honor" it is for MAC players to finish their season in Ohio Stadium.

The Dispatch's Bob Hunter would devote a annual column to the idea. All of the local television sports anchors would bring it up on game day. Scarlet-and-grey-clad fans would bring it up during casual conversation at halftime at the hotdog concession.

And all of it would be terribly insulting.

It wouldn't be worth it.

Put the game in Cincinnati or Cleveland. Keep it out of Columbus.

I see where you're coming from and agree wholeheartedly. It is something that I had not thought about previously, and it is a good point. I have no desire whatsoever to make the MACC game the bastardchild of OSU. I can see the media running everywhere saying how lucky these kids that weren't good enough for the Big 10 to finally get a shot to play in that venue. There is no doubt that this is something that would happen, and it would probably be enough to make me avoid holding the game there.

There is a difference between you and me, Hammb.

You believe Bowling Green will never play for a mythical national title.

I see it this way: Bowling Green is just further away from playing for a mythical national title than a certain other school in Columbus.

Until we're willing to make competing for a national title an actual goal, I don't think we can accomplish it. The University has to show a dedication to the football program unlike any other they've ever shown. Financially, they would have to make commitments to facilities and coach's pay. In order to compete on that level you must keep your coaches and that will take $$. The only way I see it as a possibility is if we're willing to sink money into the football program and admit that we're willing to take a major loss initially for future gains.

We must then leave the MAC for another conference. Independent would even be an improvement if you're willing to go anywhere and play anyone. With certain schools in this conference showing absolutely no dedication to excellence the conference affiliation will forever be a stigma. I like the MAC, and I don't want BG to leave it, but it will be a hindrance to us competing for a national title so long as we have to play games against the conference doormats every season. It is a hindrance in the eyes of the voters, and in your strenghth of schedule ratings. Certainly, this can be overcome, but if you're going to seriously become a perennial national title contender then the MAC is not the place to be. Despite the product on the field, it could be argued that Conference USA is actually an improvement. Without a doubt the MAC plays better football than C-USA, but the marketability of the locations in that conference with many bull ties etc, make it desirable. Of course that will likely change with the new conference shakedowns going on.

If Brigham Young, if Virginia Tech, why not us?

That's the way I see it.

We can get there. It's just going to take a lot of time.

BYU had a period of excellence and national prominence that is long over. They are not regarded as a good program any more. They are about the only example I can think of rising up from a small conference as well.

Once VaTech joined the Big East they were on the highway to prominence. That is a LOT of money getting pumped into their coffers from other bowl teams, etc. All they had to do was commit to putting that money into the football program. They hit gold in Beamer and the rest is history.

Examples like VaTech are what make me believe getting into a big conference is the best way to get to that level.

My thinking is that if BG's goal is to compete for national titles, yes they could possibly get there. It would be very difficult to do so without severing some long standing ties with the MAC, however. Yes, BYU did it, so I'm going to say that it is not impossible. It is just a very high improbability. I want nothing more than to be wrong about all this. I WANT BG to rise up and become the top of the college football world. Its a fantasy that I play out every year on the NCAA games, bringing BG to prominence and dominating all of college football. Nothing in all the world of sports could make me happier. I'm just not optimistic enough to believe that BG will make the commitment it takes to reach that level. Winning the MAC is a great goal, but its a long way from winning the MAC to winning the national championship.

I have the same hopes & dreams as you Schaden, in this regard, I'm just a lot less optimistic about their probability of occurence.

[BGSU Falconz]

My only concern is that our upward progress the past 3 or so years could be just another small pocket of success.

After all, we've had extremely good teams before. We've been to bowl games before. You could equate the Erik White years to the Josh Harris years.

The thing is, if we have a bad season, our entire efforts of building a program are in danger of being reset.

There's always the threat of slipping back into mediocrity.

[Falcon30]

Do we really have to leave the MAC?

Hear me out - the MAC is much better than it was (at least at the top) 5-10 years ago. The most common reason given is the scholarship limits. I doubt that will change anytime soon. BG may not win the MAC every year, but I hope we remain intensely competitive each year. Regardless, a MAC team or two should finish ranked at the end of each year (still) for the forseeable future.

There are several "ifs" here, but it almost happened last year. We need a MAC team to have one BIG ooc win, and go undefeated. we need all the BCS teams to have at least 1 loss. We need the MAC team to qualify for the automatic BCS selection (currently 6th or up in the BCS), and win their bowl game. at best, it is a share of the 'national championship,' but it can and will happen. IF not a MAC school, a non-BCS school will crash the party in the next 5-10 years.

It would have to be a MAC school that gets some preseason hype and is around the top 25 at the beginning of the season.

IF we go undefeated next year with a win over OU...we have an excellent shot of making the BCS. SOS is gone, the computers are limited, and it would be very difficult not to have a BG team that was #23 last year, 7-1(?) against the BCS in the past several years, and having defeated OU on the road NOT be in the top 5.

It all depends on other teams beating each other...but IF Miami won at Iowa last year....where would they be ranked??? How much higher than #10?

Go undefeated - force your way into a BCS bowl, beat the overblown BCS team, be the only undefeated team.

That is the formula. We need to keep increasing our budget for Athletics. The scoreboard, the stadium improvements, better facilities....all that helps, but it is just the tip of the iceberg for where we need to be to pull off an undefeated season and BCS win.

I agree that we aren't a top 'program' yet. We are close. averaging 9+ wins a year for 3 years is close. I just hope we can ride the momentum upward further instead of pulling a Blackney.

[Falconfreak90]

TG,

I look back to 2000 and NEVER would I have dreamed we'd be where we're at now. NEVER. You and SF had great posts.

No way do I want to see the MACC in Columbus....especially not at the Shoe. To me, that is a slap in the face to the MAC. People can say the MAC is the B 10's little brother all they want. That perception is starting to change. The MAC has become so much better in a short amount of time.

Who's to say in 5-10 yrs that the MAC won't have BCS opportunities? The potential may very well be there...it will take time to break down all the barriers that have been in place for so long.

Falcfan,
Canton McKinley? I live in Green and follow the CMK Bulldogs as well! BEAT MASSILLON!!!!

GO FALCONS!!!! 37 days 2 go...