How does our depth at DL and LB compare to last year?

[Salsa]

Most Badger fans feel that their team's game plan will be to wear us down with a power running game, using Bernstein, their 270 lb fullback to open holes. And, they are hoping that a relatively young OL will do well. A good power running game, they say, would not only move the ball but also keep our offense on the sideline.

How does our depth at DL and LB compare with last year so that we can keep talented and fresh players in the game? What younger players at these positions can we depend on? Can we stop a power running game?

If we can improve in this area, we should be better than last year.

GO BG!!

[Falconfreak90]

Salsa,

I think our D line is gonna be very good but after the starters, we do have some depth issues. Guys like Brandon Mack, Brandon Curtis, Thomas James and Nick Davis are gonna have to step up. They have limited experience.

At LB, we have some studs to back up the starters. Winovich, Haneline and Briggs come to mind.

The strength of our D is the D line, IMO. Thaler, Cooley, Parks and Williams should be able to hold their own against the young Wisky line that is, I think, replacing 3 starters. Of course we need to keep an eye on the depth factor.

As for stopping the power running game? I think we can slow it down but not totally stop it. We will need to get a few 3 and outs and get Omar and Co. back on the field.

[Falconboy]

Is the key to stopping the Wisky running game or slowing it down considerably. I was hoping the RS guys Davis and Curtis would be closer to 300lbs after coming in a 280 as freshman. I figured they could easily gain another 15 to 20 pounds if they worked at it for a year. But the roster has them both losing several pounds. May not mean much, but 275lbs DT's are not going to fair well against a B10 O-line and fullback thats as big as our own d-lineman at 270. If they're going to be this small they'd better be quicker this year, alot quicker.

[1987alum]

Wow a reponse from falconboy about our defense that includes moaning about their size. Color me stunned.

Strategically, our defense needs to be more disciplined. When we were beaten last year (NIU & UT, in particular), it appeared that defenders weren't holding containment, allowing for cutback and other holes, in addition to plain old sloppy tackling.

Personnel-wise, I think the burden will be on the linebackers to make solid tackles and the defensive backs to create some big plays (read: turnovers).

[hammb]

Wow a reponse from falconboy about our defense that includes moaning about their size. Color me stunned.

Strategically, our defense needs to be more disciplined. When we were beaten last year (NIU & UT, in particular), it appeared that defenders weren't holding containment, allowing for cutback and other holes, in addition to plain old sloppy tackling.

Personnel-wise, I think the burden will be on the linebackers to make solid tackles and the defensive backs to create some big plays (read: turnovers).

I agree with you to some extent '87, but I also have to still side with Falconboy on this issue. I may not bring it up as often as he does, but if we are putting the burden on our LBs to make the tackles than our DL is ALL wrong. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Defensive schemes that rely on LBs to fill gaps and make all the plays are usually the ones that go out and get the biggest 2 guys in the middle they can find. You don't want athletes you want block-gobblers to let the LBs to roam free.

If you're going to have undersized DTs you usually want them to use their quickness advantage (assuming there is one) to hit one gap and hit it quick. Get the DL into the backfield to disrupt the play and take the RB out of the play before he gets his speed built up.

I think the biggest problem (lack of discipline was #2) that our defense has had in recent years is they don't know which of these schemes they want to employ. They recruit and play the personnel for a 1-gap DL, but then in the post game wrapups you hear the coaches putting the onus on the LBs to make the plays. Well, which is it? If you're asking 275lb DTs to occupy the blockers by themselves to let the LBs roam free that just is not real likely against a quality OL. Once those interior linemen start getting to the second level its all over...

[Falconboy]

Wow a reponse from falconboy about our defense that includes moaning about their size. Color me stunned.

Strategically, our defense needs to be more disciplined. When we were beaten last year (NIU & UT, in particular), it appeared that defenders weren't holding containment, allowing for cutback and other holes, in addition to plain old sloppy tackling.

Personnel-wise, I think the burden will be on the linebackers to make solid tackles and the defensive backs to create some big plays (read: turnovers).

The burden I think is on the front four to get penetration and cause bad throws by Stocco and help our linebackers get to the rb's. If we're relying on soley linbackers and safteys , well we might as well hang it up cuz that would mean were giving up 4-5 yards a pop and thats not going to get it done son. The D-line has to get pressure in the running game and passing game. We can't win this with our d-line getting thrown around like rag dolls unless we can put up 80 and that might even be debatable. I kinda think its almost like giving up to say we will only win if the offense does its thing and has its way with Wisky's secondary with they should. But for once I'd like to have a D that can step up huge and make the plays necessary to get a win without the offense putting up ps2 numbers.

[Tricky_Falcon]

1 day 21 hrs 12 min. All of our questions will be answered.

[Flipper]

I think (generically speaking) our defensive philosphy has been to try and utilize our quickness to get as many tacklers to the ball as possible. The DL disrupts the play and if they don't make the inital stop, the LB's should be there to clean up.

The problem with this approach was highlighted by 1987 and by others (myself included) in earlier discussions. The LB's and DL on the back of the pursuit cannot flow to the ball as aggressively as the guys on the front side. That does nothing but open up huge lanes for the RB to cut back into.

That tendency to over pursue and lose that positional discipline has been a huge problem for our defense for at least a couple of years (how many long runs did that Wright kid from Northwestern get on us in the MCB by cutting back against the pursuit )

To answer the inital question. I like our DL with Williams over Crossley (great athlete but an inconsistent mental approach hurt him a lot) and the returning Thaler, Parks and Cooley. The back ups seem to have potential, but haven't seen enough action to allow me to form any definitive opinions.

The situation is similar at LB. We lack the clear "star" that we had in Haneline, Hewitt and Burkes over the past few years, but we may have more talent collectively. Winovich and the younger Haneline have a chance to be great MAC LB's....time will tell if they realize that potential.

[Falconboy]

Wow a reponse from falconboy about our defense that includes moaning about their size. Color me stunned.

Strategically, our defense needs to be more disciplined. When we were beaten last year (NIU & UT, in particular), it appeared that defenders weren't holding containment, allowing for cutback and other holes, in addition to plain old sloppy tackling.

Personnel-wise, I think the burden will be on the linebackers to make solid tackles and the defensive backs to create some big plays (read: turnovers).

I agree with you to some extent '87, but I also have to still side with Falconboy on this issue. I may not bring it up as often as he does, but if we are putting the burden on our LBs to make the tackles than our DL is ALL wrong. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Defensive schemes that rely on LBs to fill gaps and make all the plays are usually the ones that go out and get the biggest 2 guys in the middle they can find. You don't want athletes you want block-gobblers to let the LBs to roam free.

If you're going to have undersized DTs you usually want them to use their quickness advantage (assuming there is one) to hit one gap and hit it quick. Get the DL into the backfield to disrupt the play and take the RB out of the play before he gets his speed built up.

I think the biggest problem (lack of discipline was #2) that our defense has had in recent years is they don't know which of these schemes they want to employ. They recruit and play the personnel for a 1-gap DL, but then in the post game wrapups you hear the coaches putting the onus on the LBs to make the plays. Well, which is it? If you're asking 275lb DTs to occupy the blockers by themselves to let the LBs roam free that just is not real likely against a quality OL. Once those interior linemen start getting to the second level its all over...

Right on the money Hammb. :-\ At least we moved Brad Williams from DT to DE where he belongs. That was at least a start in the right direction. I really don't see asking undersized d-lineman to use quickness anyway unless they're freaks of nature. Those guys are even harder to recruit. It should'n't have been hard at all to get DT's Davis and Curtis up to around 300lbs. That would've taken some of the mismatches away for these B10 teams at the LOS. Now being gap sound and linebackers staying in proper lanes is all good and was also a part of the problem no question. This is where we all hope DC Lovett comes in and makes a real difference. Now if we are gap sound as we can be and we are in our lanes and we still get pounded and pounded, what will then ultimatly be the underlying problem? I'm sure you'll guess.

[JoeFalcon]

I think (generically speaking) our defensive philosphy has been to try and utilize our quickness to get as many tacklers to the ball as possible. The DL disrupts the play and if they don't make the inital stop, the LB's should be there to clean up.

The problem with this approach was highlighted by 1987 and by others (myself included) in earlier discussions. The LB's and DL on the back of the pursuit cannot flow to the ball as aggressively as the guys on the front side. That does nothing but open up huge lanes for the RB to cut back into.

That tendency to over pursue and lose that positional discipline has been a huge problem for our defense for at least a couple of years (how many long runs did that Wright kid from Northwestern get on us in the MCB by cutting back against the pursuit )

To answer the inital question. I like our DL with Williams over Crossley (great athlete but an inconsistent mental approach hurt him a lot) and the returning Thaler, Parks and Cooley. The back ups seem to have potential, but haven't seen enough action to allow me to form any definitive opinions.

The situation is similar at LB. We lack the clear "star" that we had in Haneline, Hewitt and Burkes over the past few years, but we may have more talent collectively. Winovich and the younger Haneline have a chance to be great MAC LB's....time will tell if they realize that potential.

Great points. Amstutz and Novak in particular seemed to have Beckman's schemes and tendencies figured out, and I think a change will ultimately turn out to be beneficial. I was able to see Mack play in a high school All-Star game and he looked like a man amongst boys. I wasn't surprised at all to see him break into the two deep as a true freshman. By the time he leaves BG, he should be an All-MAC caliber player.