Instant reaction to tonight's loss

[Warthog]

FWIW, I like a lot of Amstutz's style. I like how he has some balls and goes for it on fourth down so much. So many coaches play to 'not lose' the game while he seems to coach 'to win' the game.

[1987alum]

The Purdue win and bowl victories were great - I was freaking out too! And it is awesome to score a big game win at Miami. But, with all those Big Games have equated to exactly zero MAC titles.

My point is that Brandon's teams have the talent, and every time they have a chance to win the MAC they, well... don't. This year was a great example. This was their chance, it was their year. They fought through serious adversity and, despite all that, there they were with a chance to go to MACC. One game. Your field. And... can't get it done.

Right. And despite the fact some folks around here want to deify Urban Meyer, he brought home the same number of MAC titles as Brandon. Zero, which equals the number of bowl victories Meyer had at BG, because that also equals the number of bowl games played by Meyer-coached BG teams.

Your last comment interests me. You admit the team had more than its share of adversity and, yet, fought through it to put themselves in a position to compete for the division title. Yes, the "didn't get it done," but they played a great game; it's not like we got beat last night by an inferior opponent. Toledo has a very good team.

[OptionQB]

The Urban to Brandon comparisons when discussing bowls and MAC Championships are delusional at best. All Meyer did was inherit a what 2-9 team that was bordering on internal racial conflict in the lockerroom(trust me, my roommate was there) and go 8-3 by playing a bunch of young kids the next two years. To have even expected Meyer to play in a bowl or a MAC Championship game would have qualified for 2 of 3 miracles for cannonization.

Yet Brandon has taken roughly the same players and added a few along the way to "win bowl games and play for MAC Championships." Can you honestly say that we have had any semblance of player development in the Gregg Brandon era or was he simply maintaining a program that wasn't his to begin with and any number of "offensive geniuses" could have led to similar results?

Gregg Brandon might have played for the MAC Championship and won bowl games, but Urban Meyer taught this team how to win. Considering the circumstances and the pile of crap he walked into, Urban has the more lasting legacy in my opinion.

[1987alum]

The Urban to Brandon comparisons when discussing bowls and MAC Championships are delusional at best.

Option:

Thank you for making my point. Brandon is his own coach and deserves to be judged on his own merit.

But let's not let Meyer off the hook, either.

OK, he came into an ugly situation with a losing team. He had a winning record his first (and only) two seasons.

But what about Gary Blackney? He came into an ugly situation with a losing team, too. What did he do? He not only produced two immediate winning seasons, he produced two immediate MAC Championships. Does Meyer deserved to be compared to Blackney, then? Probably not.

I don't believe Brandon is blameless. I don't believe he has fully developed as a head coach. But I don't think he deserves to be treated like Randy Knorr.

[JoeFalcon]

A couple points:

1) Urban inherited plenty of problems, but I don't think pure talent was one of them. Gibson, Alls, Gerling, Bautista, Redd, Wendel, Mazur, Kupke, Wingrove, Hicks, Glantzis, Hanline, Campbell, Fisher, Rose, Long...those were some excellent players and the ones who carried the 2001 team. Urban did a great job but had his own issues of peaking too early, not showing up for non-conference games (see South Florida 2002) and melting down against Toledo on the road.

2) Omar developed into a All-American under Brandon and a case could be made that his regression this year was due to injury. I agree that player development appears to be lacking, but that could be a product of an unrealistic standard being set in '03 and '04. The defense improved through the course of the year with a number of young players. Next year should be a great window to fully evaluate Brandon's ability to develop players in the system due to the holes that will have to be filled.

[OptionQB]

Moe Ankeney was a helluva better recruiter than Gary Blackney. I would assume the talent level inherited by Blackney was a lot closer to being competitive than Meyer's, but I don't know. Meyer walked into an ugly, ugly situation.

[1987alum]

Next year should be a great window to fully evaluate Brandon's ability to develop players in the system due to the holes that will have to be filled.

I agree 100%. Next year is a watershed year for Brandon, IMO.

[transfer2BGSU]

But what about Gary Blackney? He came into an ugly situation with a losing team, too. What did he do? He not only produced two immediate winning seasons, he produced two immediate MAC Championships.

For those that think Meyer walks on water....he didn't back in '01 and '02 and he still does not.

[JWEIII]

All I am saying is that the program is ALWAYS "close but no cigar." Urban, too.

I am still a fan. I will continue to root (Go Western!). They have had some hudge wins in the Urban/Brandon era. They have consistently had a title opportunities. But always, for lack of a better term, choke.

Last night was a great game. But to lose the MAC East, MACC game and a bowl bid on your home field, on senior day, is a choke in my book. And its becoming a pattern.

That "no shame in losing to a good team," "moral vicorty" garbage is just that, garbage. It was there for the taking (again) and they came up short (again). That can't be disputed.

[NWLB]

2003 - That Miami team was one of the best MAC squads ever. Period. If they didn't lose that early season game, they would have been top 10. No shame in that loss.

2004 - Tough loss, but just to clarify, we had practically no chance of getting in the MACC game at that point, while Toledo was, in fact, play for their division title. They had a lot more on the line. That's not an excuse; there's no excuse for blowing a lead like that.

2005 - We can debate play calling and strategy here, but it wasn't like the team came out flat or we got steamrolled. By all accounts the Falcons played with a lot of intensity.

As for winning the Big Game, well, he did beat Purdue and brought home two bowl victories.

And, FWIW, another knock against him was he couldn't win The Big MAC Road Game. Got that monkey of his back in Oxford this year.

I read what you are saying, but the subtle point that is under all of this, is that he doesn't win the "big game" that means anything. Sure bowl wins and beating Purdue early are great, nobody denies that. But the keen observer sees real flaws with how the coaches are performing and how the program is progressing. We should not simply thank the football gods for a few decent times because being critical makes us feel ungrateful. Taking what we get is what keeps programs stuck in the middle, which is where BGSU is right now.

This season has ended as it began: with great offense, and no defense. As good as the team CAN be, it ISN'T, and that is the problem. A tiny bit less luck, and this 6-5 team goes 4-7 or even 3-8. Indeed, its closer to that record that it really is a MAC title.

This is BG, its a small community, and that tends to cause people to avoid knocking the coaches too hard. We give people the benefit of the doubt because we see them in Kroger every week. Its a harder thing to be constructive and critical when times are perceived as "good" but it is needed.

I'm not calling for anybody's head, but we need to be open to being critical of the coaches, if only to have a constructive debate over what is or isn't working. That debates should happen this off season.

[NWLB]

And, FWIW, another knock against him was he couldn't win The Big MAC Road Game. Got that monkey of his back in Oxford this year.

We didn't win in Miami as much as they gave it to us?

Disagree. We outplayed them. Period.

Sorry, Miami imploded, choked, rolled-over and died. It doesn't take much to out-play a team that ties an NCAA record with THREE safties off of four bad snaps, with two fumbles, and five INTs. That game was as much a fluke as anything. Not that I'm not willing to take it. Most of the MAC has had one or two games like Miami's. Nobody was safe this year. I wouldn't rule-out Akron winning the darned title if they make the game.

This is why I'm pointing out that this team could as well been 4-7 as 6-5. And I don't know that 3-8 wasn't possible give how things went.

[NWLB]

The Purdue win and bowl victories were great - I was freaking out too! And it is awesome to score a big game win at Miami. But, with all those Big Games have equated to exactly zero MAC titles.

My point is that Brandon's teams have the talent, and every time they have a chance to win the MAC they, well... don't. This year was a great example. This was their chance, it was their year. They fought through serious adversity and, despite all that, there they were with a chance to go to MACC. One game. Your field. And... can't get it done.

Right. And despite the fact some folks around here want to deify Urban Meyer, he brought home the same number of MAC titles as Brandon. Zero, which equals the number of bowl victories Meyer had at BG, because that also equals the number of bowl games played by Meyer-coached BG teams.

Your last comment interests me. You admit the team had more than its share of adversity and, yet, fought through it to put themselves in a position to compete for the division title. Yes, the "didn't get it done," but they played a great game; it's not like we got beat last night by an inferior opponent. Toledo has a very good team.

I'm not going to write moral victories where they should exist. This team underachieved, and did so because of coaching and lack of focus. These are flaws that are of the coaches and players. In the end, the coaches are responsible. There isn't an excuse for the decline this program suffered this year. As good as things were in the last couple of years, we have to peel the drywall away and see if there isn't some hidden rot in the house here.

Again, I'm not advocating a witch-hunt. However we need to be able to discuss things with level heads and figure out what to believe. That means not planting flags and defending a point of view to the death.

[1987alum]

Again, I'm not advocating a witch-hunt. However we need to be able to discuss things with level heads and figure out what to believe. That means not planting flags and defending a point of view to the death.

NWLB: That's my point. I'm all for taking a thoughtful look at the program, the coaches, whatever. But it frustrates me that many folks have a knee-jerk reaction of "Brandon s**ks. Fire him."

That's why I dug into our recruiting a bit in this blog post. That little exercise gave me, I think, a better perspective than I had before.

As far back as July, there were numerous red flags that we were being overhyped. Some people, I think, just didn't want to pay attention.

[1987alum]

nm. double post.

[NWLB]

The Urban to Brandon comparisons when discussing bowls and MAC Championships are delusional at best. All Meyer did was inherit a what 2-9 team that was bordering on internal racial conflict in the lockerroom(trust me, my roommate was there) and go 8-3 by playing a bunch of young kids the next two years. To have even expected Meyer to play in a bowl or a MAC Championship game would have qualified for 2 of 3 miracles for cannonization.

Yet Brandon has taken roughly the same players and added a few along the way to "win bowl games and play for MAC Championships." Can you honestly say that we have had any semblance of player development in the Gregg Brandon era or was he simply maintaining a program that wasn't his to begin with and any number of "offensive geniuses" could have led to similar results?

Gregg Brandon might have played for the MAC Championship and won bowl games, but Urban Meyer taught this team how to win. Considering the circumstances and the pile of crap he walked into, Urban has the more lasting legacy in my opinion.

I think Option hits on several points which may be key.

When new coaches are hired, we have all seen how credit for recruiting seems to shift. Urban and Brandon were both being credited with Omar Jacobs and other players, it just depended on whom you asked. Credit for the offense is much the same.

To be honest, when Brandon was hired I shrugged. It seemed like the greatest fear was that we would lose our dynamic offense. But as you look around, we now have an offensive line coach calling the shots, and nobody was saying things looked bad last year. Urban was clearly able to find somebody else to do the same thing at Utah. Half the old-school offenses in the country have started to run the exact same offense. We may have been writing too much into the fact that Brandon was the OC. The truth is the system isn't unique to BG. I think they hired Brandon because he was popular with the players, which nobody wanted to alienate, and would not change what seemed to be a good thing.

Nobody hired Brandon after the next two years as they thought his success was simply a carry-through of what Urban did. Truth be told, it starts to look very much like just that. The turn-around Urban executed carried us to this year. What we are seeing on the field last night and this season represents what the staff is presently able to produce. When Urban was here, the team reflected his intensity. Brandon's team seems to be off in its own world, prone to losing focus such as we saw against WMU and such. When the time came to get a DC we wound up only being able to attract a wash-out from programs where he had either been fired or moved on before that happened.

Brandon landing the HC job isn't unlike Blackney getting his chance here. They were both long-time assistants, and getting the job here might well have been their first, best, chance at the HC job. Urban got his job here because he was the bright-star rising. Brandon got the job because of Urbans coattails.

Is Brandon or anybody on the staff irreplaceable? Absolutely not.