2022 Schedule

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jpfalcon09
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by jpfalcon09 »

hammb wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:20 pm Dave Briggs. The one man in the local media who gets it and is willing to point it out:

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/coll ... 0220227168

Weeknight MACtion is among the dumbest things this conference has ever done, and that's saying something. Selling your souls to put games people won't watch on TV channels (or streams) that people don't get. It was one thing to put some key matchup games on primetime television when they were on ESPN or ESPN2. But relegating every game in the conference to primetime weeknights in November in Ohio/Michigan is just insanely stupid.
I'll play devil's advocate and say that the increase in the number of states legalizing sports gambling has worked in the MAC's favor for the midweek games. Some of the ratings for last year's premier midweek games were actually decent for MAC standards, so people are watching, granted most of them have little to no direct affiliation with either school playing.

For example, some 2021 TV ratings:
11/3 (NIU vs. Kent) 454K
11/10 (NIU vs. Ball State) 470K
11/9 (Ohio vs. EMU) 294K
11/17 (NIU vs. Buffalo) 517K

Comparatively, the MAC is outdrawing the Sun Belt midweek and even some ACC, Mountain West, and SEC games that are broadcast in primetime on Saturday night cable (ESPN/ESPN2/FS1).
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by TommyG »

The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

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TommyG wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:30 pm The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
The game is only important if it means something, i.e. both programs aren't down. People have come out on a Tuesday or Wednesday night to watch these two schools play when both have been successful. I've also seen sparse crowds on a weekend when both programs suck and the weather is bad. To me it's more on the schools and the programs to field competitive teams and get people to want to come than it is what day the game is being played on.

Last time both these teams were both above .500 and played each other was 2015 on a Tuesday night and attendance was just shy of 24,000 at Doyt Perry. These are casual fanbases and you need to give people something to come out for on both sides of the ledger, weeknight or weekday.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by factman »

Frankly, I don’t really care any more. The way we run games, recent records, etc are making me think that my streak of 50+ years of season tickets to football and probably mens basketball will come to an END next year.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by footballguy51 »

For the past handful of years, it seems like this game has been on a Saturday in October in Toledo or a weeknight in November in Bowling Green. Perhaps this will swing back and we'll get Toledo at home in 2023 on a Saturday in October and pack the Doyt?
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by hammb »

TommyG wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:30 pm The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
This has long been my opinion on the weeknight games vs playing on Saturdays.

Yes, I'm happy that I can now watch the games on TV, pretty much every single game either streaming or whatever. The actual revenue stream is not even worth discussing it's basically nothing. The supposed draw has always been Exposure, exposure, exposure. But what actual help is it gaining for the university in terms of exposure? Basketball and football are both way behind where they used to be in terms of talent level. I think both sports are way behind where they used to be in the "this is a mid-major to be scared of!" factor for whatever that's worth. I don't think it's helped recruiting one iota. Is enrollment up from all this exposure? Are universities allowed to be more selective in admissions? Last I read the answer to those were both resounding Nos.

What is lost goes well beyond the "attendance numbers" for the UT/BG game. What is lost is that I can flat out state with 100% sincerity that it was the weeknight games that made me drop my season tickets years ago. What has happened for me since then is that discussing the football program on here is about my only attachment to it at all. I have been to one game in person over the past 3 years, and might watch bits and pieces of the games if I happen to be home when they're on. They basically lost me as a die hard. If Twitter and this website went away I'd probably never even know when another BG football game happened because I don't seek it out anymore.

What is lost is the ability to build a tailgate culture every Saturday for the students. A culture that helps build attachment to the university and its culture...things that are supposed to be the very reasons we HAVE intercollegiate athletics. To paraphrase Mr. Briggs's comments, the reason for MAC sports is NOT to simply provide additional programming for ESPN.

Like many others I had no issues with, and still don't really, playing some key big game matchups on Thursdays if they're going to be on ESPN or ESPN2. Those games being televised actually helps push for larger in person audiences because they are featured in ESPN ads and everybody knows when we're playing that big game. You are then featuring the best the conference has to offer and that can also work in favor of helping garner a future audience/following. But this nonsense of playing every single conference game on weekdays in November is just asinine. You're sacrificing the very reasons for MAC football's existence in the name of a couple hundred thousand eyeballs on ESPN the Ocho.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by jpfalcon09 »

hammb wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:38 pm
TommyG wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:30 pm The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
This has long been my opinion on the weeknight games vs playing on Saturdays.

Yes, I'm happy that I can now watch the games on TV, pretty much every single game either streaming or whatever. The actual revenue stream is not even worth discussing it's basically nothing. The supposed draw has always been Exposure, exposure, exposure. But what actual help is it gaining for the university in terms of exposure? Basketball and football are both way behind where they used to be in terms of talent level. I think both sports are way behind where they used to be in the "this is a mid-major to be scared of!" factor for whatever that's worth. I don't think it's helped recruiting one iota. Is enrollment up from all this exposure? Are universities allowed to be more selective in admissions? Last I read the answer to those were both resounding Nos.

What is lost goes well beyond the "attendance numbers" for the UT/BG game. What is lost is that I can flat out state with 100% sincerity that it was the weeknight games that made me drop my season tickets years ago. What has happened for me since then is that discussing the football program on here is about my only attachment to it at all. I have been to one game in person over the past 3 years, and might watch bits and pieces of the games if I happen to be home when they're on. They basically lost me as a die hard. If Twitter and this website went away I'd probably never even know when another BG football game happened because I don't seek it out anymore.

What is lost is the ability to build a tailgate culture every Saturday for the students. A culture that helps build attachment to the university and its culture...things that are supposed to be the very reasons we HAVE intercollegiate athletics. To paraphrase Mr. Briggs's comments, the reason for MAC sports is NOT to simply provide additional programming for ESPN.

Like many others I had no issues with, and still don't really, playing some key big game matchups on Thursdays if they're going to be on ESPN or ESPN2. Those games being televised actually helps push for larger in person audiences because they are featured in ESPN ads and everybody knows when we're playing that big game. You are then featuring the best the conference has to offer and that can also work in favor of helping garner a future audience/following. But this nonsense of playing every single conference game on weekdays in November is just asinine. You're sacrificing the very reasons for MAC football's existence in the name of a couple hundred thousand eyeballs on ESPN the Ocho.
IMO, every MAC program should have one midweek game and that's it. Equal exposure and it guarantees home Saturdays late in the year.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

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hammb wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:38 pm
TommyG wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:30 pm The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
This has long been my opinion on the weeknight games vs playing on Saturdays.

Yes, I'm happy that I can now watch the games on TV, pretty much every single game either streaming or whatever. The actual revenue stream is not even worth discussing it's basically nothing. The supposed draw has always been Exposure, exposure, exposure. But what actual help is it gaining for the university in terms of exposure? Basketball and football are both way behind where they used to be in terms of talent level. I think both sports are way behind where they used to be in the "this is a mid-major to be scared of!" factor for whatever that's worth. I don't think it's helped recruiting one iota. Is enrollment up from all this exposure? Are universities allowed to be more selective in admissions? Last I read the answer to those were both resounding Nos.

What is lost goes well beyond the "attendance numbers" for the UT/BG game. What is lost is that I can flat out state with 100% sincerity that it was the weeknight games that made me drop my season tickets years ago. What has happened for me since then is that discussing the football program on here is about my only attachment to it at all. I have been to one game in person over the past 3 years, and might watch bits and pieces of the games if I happen to be home when they're on. They basically lost me as a die hard. If Twitter and this website went away I'd probably never even know when another BG football game happened because I don't seek it out anymore.

What is lost is the ability to build a tailgate culture every Saturday for the students. A culture that helps build attachment to the university and its culture...things that are supposed to be the very reasons we HAVE intercollegiate athletics. To paraphrase Mr. Briggs's comments, the reason for MAC sports is NOT to simply provide additional programming for ESPN.

Like many others I had no issues with, and still don't really, playing some key big game matchups on Thursdays if they're going to be on ESPN or ESPN2. Those games being televised actually helps push for larger in person audiences because they are featured in ESPN ads and everybody knows when we're playing that big game. You are then featuring the best the conference has to offer and that can also work in favor of helping garner a future audience/following. But this nonsense of playing every single conference game on weekdays in November is just asinine. You're sacrificing the very reasons for MAC football's existence in the name of a couple hundred thousand eyeballs on ESPN the Ocho.
I would agree with this 100%. Tailgating, a party, an “event” means everything in this sport and it’s culture. It’s completely removed on a weekday game, unless for a rare occurrence of an Epic, meaningful matchup. I also would go along with ONE weekday game max, that is on ESPN, not ESPN 9. Figure every year you have to indoctrinate a new groups of freshman into enjoying a football atmosphere. It becomes impossible when there are no tailgaters, busses, mobile homes, BBQs and vans there, because it’s Tuesday.
It’s not my point of view, it’s a fact.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by hammb »

jpfalcon09 wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:54 pm
hammb wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:38 pm
TommyG wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:30 pm The biggest issue with the midweek games in my opinion is that you give yourself no chance to draw fans. Maybe it wouldn’t matter? Bad teams don’t draw on late season Saturday’s either. It’s not so much about the ticket sales, more about opportunities to create fans and experiences for the community and students. Gamblers don’t give a s**t about the MAC, they only care that they can bet on something.
If it’s all about national exposure, sure, the weeknight games do that. Does that exposure really do anything for the institutions? I’d argue no.
Early on it was argued the weeknight games were going to help recruiting. For awhile it probably did. Now the talent is probably the lowest it has been in 25 years.
It’s a matter of time before MAC football is left behind completely or finally can’t do it anymore financially. They should start doing what’s best for the schools and not ESPN. There are enough streaming platforms now they could easily get a similar deal and avoid the weeknights.
This has long been my opinion on the weeknight games vs playing on Saturdays.

Yes, I'm happy that I can now watch the games on TV, pretty much every single game either streaming or whatever. The actual revenue stream is not even worth discussing it's basically nothing. The supposed draw has always been Exposure, exposure, exposure. But what actual help is it gaining for the university in terms of exposure? Basketball and football are both way behind where they used to be in terms of talent level. I think both sports are way behind where they used to be in the "this is a mid-major to be scared of!" factor for whatever that's worth. I don't think it's helped recruiting one iota. Is enrollment up from all this exposure? Are universities allowed to be more selective in admissions? Last I read the answer to those were both resounding Nos.

What is lost goes well beyond the "attendance numbers" for the UT/BG game. What is lost is that I can flat out state with 100% sincerity that it was the weeknight games that made me drop my season tickets years ago. What has happened for me since then is that discussing the football program on here is about my only attachment to it at all. I have been to one game in person over the past 3 years, and might watch bits and pieces of the games if I happen to be home when they're on. They basically lost me as a die hard. If Twitter and this website went away I'd probably never even know when another BG football game happened because I don't seek it out anymore.

What is lost is the ability to build a tailgate culture every Saturday for the students. A culture that helps build attachment to the university and its culture...things that are supposed to be the very reasons we HAVE intercollegiate athletics. To paraphrase Mr. Briggs's comments, the reason for MAC sports is NOT to simply provide additional programming for ESPN.

Like many others I had no issues with, and still don't really, playing some key big game matchups on Thursdays if they're going to be on ESPN or ESPN2. Those games being televised actually helps push for larger in person audiences because they are featured in ESPN ads and everybody knows when we're playing that big game. You are then featuring the best the conference has to offer and that can also work in favor of helping garner a future audience/following. But this nonsense of playing every single conference game on weekdays in November is just asinine. You're sacrificing the very reasons for MAC football's existence in the name of a couple hundred thousand eyeballs on ESPN the Ocho.
IMO, every MAC program should have one midweek game and that's it. Equal exposure and it guarantees home Saturdays late in the year.
And if THAT was the MAC's policy on the weeknight games you wouldn't hear me complain. I'm not even as up in arms as Briggs about it being the rivalry game...to me you should put the BEST games on primetime so they get ACTUAL coverage and not ESPN3 or whatever. So I totally get why you'd put BG/UT on ESPN primetime, in the hopes that game is on ESPN2 and gets a week of commercials about it.

My issue is putting all the games on Tuesdays/Wednesdays whatever. It makes being actual game attending fans really difficult and really limits the attachment students develop to your programs.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by Schadenfreude »

hammb wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:50 pm My issue is putting all the games on Tuesdays/Wednesdays whatever.
The MAC has six conference games each week. ESPN is essentially paying to air four games per week in November. The best two games of the week air on ESPN2 on Tuesday and Wednesday. The next best two games air on ESPNU on Tuesday and Wednesday. Two games each week are leftover for ESPN+.

Put another way: ESPN is paying for two-thirds of the MAC's football product on weeknights in November. I'm not sure it would be possible for the MAC to give ESPN what it is paying for without the entire conference playing on weeknights. (Just in terms of math: There are only so many 10-day mini byes teams can take and still get all their games in before the conference championship.)

Playing fewer weeknight games means getting fewer MAC games on the ESPN family of networks. It would also mean less money and inferior television product (given that ESPN would have fewer games to choose from).
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by TommyG »

The problem the MAC has is there is really no leverage with ESPN. The MAC is nothing to ESPN and are treated as such. ESPN pays bare bones because they can milk the content to help build ESPN+. The MAC severely overrates a little bit of twitter exposure from Barstool as something it isn’t.
It isn’t a significant revenue source, a recruiting advantage, an enrollment booster, or licensing and apparel revenue. It is just a bunch of gamblers tweeting about teams they don’t care about.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by MarkL »

What are alternatives to a contract with ESPN selling our soul for money in order to be midweek content filler? A cheaper deal with ESPN? CBS / NBC streaming platforms? Stream on youtube with ad revenue?

Go really outside the box and sign a streaming deal with Tubi, Twitch, or some other ad-based streaming video service? Let each member school of broadcasting generate their own student-led and produced broadcast? Just curious if there's an alternative nobody is thinking of to presenting empty stadiums on a frigid Wednesday night. NFL did their deal with Amazon so I'm curious if there's something similar on a much smaller scale the MAC could consider.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by Schadenfreude »

MarkL wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:56 am What are alternatives to a contract with ESPN selling our soul for money in order to be midweek content filler? A cheaper deal with ESPN? CBS / NBC streaming platforms? Stream on youtube with ad revenue?

Go really outside the box and sign a streaming deal with Tubi, Twitch, or some other ad-based streaming video service? Let each member school of broadcasting generate their own student-led and produced broadcast? Just curious if there's an alternative nobody is thinking of to presenting empty stadiums on a frigid Wednesday night. NFL did their deal with Amazon so I'm curious if there's something similar on a much smaller scale the MAC could consider.
I don't think those alternatives would bring anywhere near the built in eyeballs we are getting right now on ESPN2 and (to a lesser extent) ESPNU.

The alternative is probably what Conference USA and the Mountain West are doing. I believe their major television contracts are with CBS Sports Network, which I doubt has the reach of ESPNU. (I'll stand corrected.) Stadium, an even smaller network, also covers some Conference USA games, as does Facebook.

Many in Conference USA are unhappy about the situation. Western Kentucky's athletic director -- who would probably happily embrace an invitation to join the MAC -- has openly complained about their TV deal. The Hilltoppers beat a very highly-ranked Louisville basketball team this season, but very few people saw it happen, because the game aired on Facebook.

https://www.bgdailynews.com/sports/wku/ ... a716f.html

No one love playing football on a cold November weeknight, but all things considered, I imagine Conference USA would love to have our television deal.
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Re: 2022 Schedule

Post by fanatic13 »

I would be happy with an alternate streaming instead of espn+ because I think we would get some advertising but can't see it being any better than espn2/u. However those games are essentially worthless unless you include basketball (still not worth much)

Big fan of only one midweek game. I did a statistical analysis of mac attendance over 5 years (2011-15) looking at 10 different variables. Midweek games definitely hurt but I remember record being a large factor also. Was a great predictor of attendance. I'll look for the data but it's probably on my old laptop in a different state. Regardless as others stated there are a lot of cons to midweek games outside of attendance and is part of the reason I canceled my season tickets a couple of years ago. It's worse when we have 5 home games in a season but making two 4.5 hour time commitments on a weekday is rough