CiviCRM Community Forums (archive)

This question has come up from several of the groups we support using CiviCRM. I'd be surprised if no one else has asked for this yet (it's briefly mentioned here, in fact http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,7680.msg33638.html#msg33638). Essentially, wondering if it's possible/what it would take to remove the time limit on recurring payments as donors sign up to pay every month. Is the limitation in CiviContribute or is it with the payment processor?

Currently, one can choose to make a donation every ____ [unit of time] for ____ [number of] installments.

Would be ideal to have the option of not choosing a number of installments, a "continuous" or "indefinitely" option. Have others asked for this/seen a need for this?

I just posted a feature request on this.
http://forum.civicrm.org/index.php/topic,26375.msg111700.html#msg111700

Cheers,
Jason

Thanks for creating the feature request Jason.

I did some more research and I should note that being able to do this will depend on your Payment Processor.  In our case, we are using Moneris, which actually requires that you sent it the number of instalments for recurring payments.  They do not allow infinite recurrence, so in our case at least, it would do no good for that to be an option anyway.

Thanks,
Matt

That may be true for some payment processors that ship with CiviCRM, but for Moneris, this is not the case.  The Moneris payment processor class that ships with CiviCRM is the same in 4.1 and 4.2, only minor changes to message text.  In the Moneris payment processor found here:

/CRM/Core/Payment/Moneris.php

on line 155, you can see that there is a requirement for the instalments field to be greater than 1.  Meaning that if the end user sets his payment to be recurring and leaves the instalments field empty, as you suggest, then what actually happens is not a recurrence at all, but a one time payment.  This is probably not what should happen, the user should likely be notified that the number of instalments are required, not send them off thinking they have made some kind of recurring payment.

Furthermore, I checked into the Moneris API documentation for PHP.  This document lays out usage of their PHP API, which is the file that Moneris distributes that you need to put in your CiviCRM install, mpgClasses.php.  This file and it's API functions are used by the CiviCRM Moneris PHP wrapper (referenced above):

https://developer.moneris.com/Downloads/Canada/API/~/media/Files/Canada/eSELECTplus_PHP_IG.ashx

In it, it plainly says (Appendix D) that the parameter to their API, 'num_recurs', should be between 1-99.  It is a required parameter and even if you try sending 0, -1, or nothing at all for that parameter, the transaction will fail.

Having said all that, my point it is, it should not be advertised that CiviCRM supports recurrences, unless it's said with a big disclaimer that it depends on the payment processor.  From my experience researching this issue, at a minimum it would seem that not all the payment processors that ship with CiviCRM have the same level of support.  For those looking at using CiviCRM for payment, be aware of this and fully test your integration, before shipping.

Thanks,
Matt

Sure,

On the documentation front, there is no information about recurring payments and their varying support by payment processor:

http://en.flossmanuals.net/civicrm/contributions/payment-processors/
http://book.civicrm.org/user/current/contributions/payment-processors/

In the Civi wiki, Moneris should probably have a note about limited support for recurring, as others do.  I'm not seeing where (if) I can edit this page:

http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRMDOC40/CiviContribute+Payment+Processor+Configuration

To help others in future, I'd like to see added something along the lines of:

"Infinite recurrence's are not supported by the Moneris API.  Your users will need to enter the number of times they wish to recur their contribution in addition to the period.  Also note that recurring contributions are not logged as contributions in CiviCRM.  The recurrence happens completely on the Moneris side, and you will need to manually visit your Moneris admin account to verify recurring transactions and manually enter those transactions as contributions in CiviCRM in order to have a complete list of contributions made through your website.  Also note that CiviCRM's Moneris payment processor does not support management of contributions, such that you will need to cancel or update recurrences outside of CiviCRM, within your Moneris admin."

If I'm wrong in any regard, I'd love for someone to show me the way, but that is what I've found thus far.

Also, the Moneris specific documentation could use some cleanup:

http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRMDOC41/Moneris+Configuration+Guide
http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRMDOC31/Moneris+Configuration+Guide

The file needed for Moneris, mpgClasses.php, is distributed and updated by Moneris.  These instructions should have steps to obtain the most recent copy and update it for use with CiviCRM.  The version linked here: http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRMDOC31/Moneris+Configuration+Guide is an old copy and should probably not be used.

Sorry, if I came off sounding rude.  I've had a bit of a frustrating experience with this.   I'd like to make it better if I can.

Thanks,
Matt

Dave,

Awesome!  Thanks for that.  I have an account for the Wiki now and review and update when I get a chance.

Thanks,
Matt

Wiki updated:

http://wiki.civicrm.org/confluence/display/CRMDOC42/Moneris+Configuration+Guide